|
Advanced Search |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
06-20-15, 04:48 PM | #1 |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Durability of the solar panels/collectors in Drain Back Solar Hot Water Systems
I am considering drain back solar system for domestic hot water, and was wondering about durability of the solar panels (collectors) when used in such system.
This video seems to do good explanation of the Drain Back Solar Systems principle: http://youtu.be/qOXcbsjUOZw As I understand the principle of Drain Back Solar Systems, once the set high limit temperature for the drainback tank water/glycol is reached - the controller shuts off the pump and stops the water flow. This stops the tank water from overheating, but then the collector itself is not transferring the collected temperature. Since this can/will happen often (depending of the drainback water tank versus the solar collector ratio), how safe is this prolonged "dry stagnation" for the collector condition and durability? It seems that solar panels/collectors intended for use with Drain Back Solar Hot Water Systems, should be made with bigger tolerance for high temperatures. Or any collector will do? Can somebody share some insight or experience, how durable are solar panels/collectors when used in drain back system? |
06-21-15, 01:17 AM | #2 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
Welcome aboard!
I think that you are the first person from Macedonia on this forum. I must admit that I do not have direct experience with drain-back systems. However, I have not heard of solar collectors failing from the stagnant phase. I was under the impression that the drain-back cycle would kick in at night, and also protect the collectors from freezing. -AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 06-21-15 at 04:26 PM.. |
06-21-15, 04:19 AM | #3 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Tnx AC, and wow - a reply from the author of the famous "The Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto"
Quote:
But still even when designing to avoid heat dump, one should aim to be close to 175-195F (80-90C) temperature range. With the certainty of some water evaporating eventually, there could be possibilities of daily occurrences of the drain back (stagnant ) phase. I'd very much like to hear some do's and don'ts on designing Drain Back Solar Hot Water Systems. Yours are excellent advices AC, shame that you don't have experience with drainback systems. But hopefully somebody else can help. If the thread does go in that direction, maybe admins or moderators could rename this thread. |
|
06-21-15, 08:27 AM | #4 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
|
There are many materials that will work with a drainback collector. If you are purchasing panels, the manufacturer will have specs and charts to help you do your design homework. However, if you DIY the collectors, that means more design homework up front for you. There are lots of case studies and plans at build it solar where others have tread the path you are taking.
If you install too many panels for your heat load or storage capacity, stagnated panels will exist. If any panels aren't strong enough, you will find out fast. If you don't have a relief mechanism, the system could explode from the high temp and pressure. Not a trial and error friendly rig. Extra homework up front and conservative overbuilding practice will eliminate bad days for you. |
06-21-15, 10:16 AM | #5 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 125
Thanks: 5
Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
|
My solar hot water system is not a drain-back system, but maybe some of my experience may apply anyway.
I have had the system stagnate & overheat when the power failed - my system relies on a pump for circulation - and this would be the same overheating panel scenario you are concerned about. The system did indeed overheat, to the point where it was producing hammer in the pipework and I was genuinely concerned about an explosion or at the least a burst. Thinking about it later I don't understand why the pressure relief valve did not activate. Either it is faulty or there I have made a design error in the layout.. Either way, it was not a nice experience. The end result was no major damage, just one evacuated tube lost all its thermal covering on the pipe inside the glass. It could have been a lot worse. It could be a good idea to design in a method of losing any excess heat produced when your tank temperature gets up to your required maximum. If the power is on I have 2 possibilities. One is to lose the heat into my central heating system and the other is to send the heat to my front steps which I keep clear of snow using solar heat in the winter. Not sure how much heat the steps can take but the central heating can certainly take anything the panels can produce. Neither of these options is effective if the power is off though. Think about that in your system design. |
06-21-15, 10:32 AM | #6 |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
I will definitely be purchasing commercial made panels. But the thing is, there are really slim pickings at local shops in my country.
I'm still researching and learning about differences between collectors compatible with drawback system, and those intended only for closed loop systems. It seems there are certain requirements needed for collectors that are to be used in drawback system. Like sturdiness to high temperatures for withstanding the stagnant daily phases, and absence of places/pockets where water can stay and not drain down in the drainback reservoir. I'm trying to find local contractor company to design and deploy the solar system for me, but thing is there aren't none here that do drainback solar systems. And not many such here that are even willing to talk about trying. So I'm left with DIY option, which means I would have to design the system myself and install it - hopefully with help of local installer. Yes some kind of relief mechanism must be present. After startup from a sunny stagnant phase, I guess there will be quite some steam - when the water hits the collector heating elements. |
06-21-15, 10:57 AM | #7 | ||
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Quote:
Yes, I'd say that this is very important point. One that could maybe be simulated when installing the system (dunno if the glycol can be reused after?) Your example is why I want to go with drainback solar system design, instead of standard pressurized closed loop with glycol that everybody and their mom has. When public electric power is off, to address the glycol overheating problem some kind of backup power for the pump is needed, but sometimes it's possible that power will be off longer than the backup capacity (UPS with inverter, or something like that). And than you will have the same (big) problem. That's the beauty of drainback system, when public electric power is off - the exchange fluid (destiled water in this case, instead of glycol) will simply drainback down in the drainback water tank. Yes, the collectors themselves will be exposed to much increased heating - but the rest of the system is safe. Quote:
|
||
06-21-15, 11:21 AM | #8 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,154
Thanks: 14
Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts
|
What about power the pumps from a PV panel?
__________________
To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her... |
06-21-15, 11:41 AM | #9 |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Was thinking about that also, but than I'd have to source the PV panel and the DC powered pump from ebay/aliexpress... and I prefer to source locally, for the guaranties (and possibly for the installation/design service from a local installer/supplier company).
After all, drainback variant seems so much more simple and easier for maintenance. And cheaper too, with glycol needing replacement after some exploitation period, and closed loop systems needing more expensive electronics in general (at least, that is as how I understand things so far). |
06-21-15, 11:51 AM | #10 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Macedonia
Posts: 13
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Quote:
http://youtu.be/VlAfTYTA0Z0 |
|
|
|