Heating Options

cholcombe · 01-11-10, 06:47 AM

Hi Guys I've been following the posts on here for awhile. It seems like everyone is working really hard to make their homes more eco friendly. I keep looking into the options for my home but I've been coming up empty and wondered what the people here think. I live in a suburb of philadelphia and I'm surrounded by other houses and tall tree's. So the morning sun is mostly blocked and the wind here is low most times. I live on .20 acres and I have a 1500 sq ft house so my free and clear land is fairly small so geothermal would have to go deep. Any ideas on what kind of power options I have? I'd really like to stop using oil heat.

Thanks guys!

Daox · 01-11-10, 06:57 AM

Well, it sounds like your only option is a heat pump system possibly like AC Hacker is doing.

However, as always, conservation is number 1. If you simply work on your house to improve the insulation, you'd probably have a much larger impact on your energy consumption. This is my current plan. Do a search here or on google for super insulated houses. Their energy loss is amazingly low.

cholcombe · 01-11-10, 09:05 AM

Yeah those are both good ideas. Do you think a heat pump setup would be hard for a DIY'er like myself? I wouldn't say I know how to plumb but I have a book to learn how. My home has those giant cast iron radiators, do you think a heat pump would work with those? I'd imagine it would. Yeah I agree conservation is something I've been working on. I've started removing the old rock wool insulation in the attic because it's old and replacing it with R30 stuff. That already seems to have helped. I also want to insulate the walls because they feel icy cold. My house is 109 yrs old so I'm not sure they were too concerned with insulation back then.

Daox · 01-11-10, 09:10 AM

I'd go with much more than R30. I'd go up to R60, and actually, I did this past fall.

My house too is over 100 years old and my upstairs rooms have no insulation in the walls. I know what its like.

I'm thinking of going with something similar to a mooney wall to increase the wall insulation.

cholcombe · 01-11-10, 09:12 AM

Interesting... are you concerned at all that once you put in the R60 that you can't walk around in the attic anymore? Not that I need the space or anything but I wonder what would happen if I had to get around in there for some reason.

Daox · 01-11-10, 09:17 AM

Nope, no worries at all really. With the cellulose (environmentally friendly and better than fiberglass), you can simply shovel it to the side if you need to get up there for anything. I did some work ahead of time adding wiring to my upstairs bedrooms so I wouldn't need to get up there for some time. As for storage, we don't use it. However, I did add a platform if we ever needed it in the future.

cholcombe · 01-12-10, 11:55 AM

Daox I checked out that mooney wall that looks interesting. The walls right now are ice cold I'm sure it won't be long before I get mad and want to rip them apart to insulate them.

Xringer · 01-12-10, 06:10 PM

Geothermal is just too much work (or too costly)..

Mini-spit AC/heat pumps work almost as well.. From what I have learned from my
experiment with the Sanyo 24,000 BTU, so far, it's a viable technology.

And best of all, my electricity bill didn't increase..

I'm really ticked right now, because my system has failed.. and I'm waiting for a new Outdoor unit..
We are burning a lot of oil these days!

Anyways, I've been thinking about the day when my warranty runs out, or
I get bored with things..

I can plumb the two R-410A lines into two heat-exchanger units.

That means that I can experiment with making hot water in the summer
and perhaps try out a ground loop in the winter time.?.

Since the system worked so well down to the 10 degree range,
(even with a refrigerant leak), I'm not sure a ground loop is even
necessary in this area of the country.

The exchanger(s) would be inserted into the lines near the outdoor unit.
The lineset is extra long, so it could be fed right into the basement.

Ryland · 01-12-10, 10:50 PM

I've insulated a number of attics and I would never put less then R60 in an attic, blowing insulation in is by far the easiest and best way to insulate and once you get set up you might as well pile more in! first, mark the depth with bright paint or something so you can see how far you have left to go then seal the outside edges with foam, create foam shoots for venting the roof out of 2" foam or reflective coated foam, take expanding foam and seal every gap you can find up there, if you have an active chimney then use a fire proof insulation around that, make the top of your house tight!
If your walls are cold then insulate them too of course, it's going to be harder but well worth it, if your house needs siding then that is part of the answer right there, insulate under the siding, sealing around every door, window and the foundation, I would go with 2" foam on the outside if you can, blow in insulation in to the walls if you can too, if you can't insulate the outside then add it to the inside, if you are on a budget then just do a room at a time, as your heating bills drop set that money aside for more insulation.

cholcombe · 01-13-10, 10:30 AM

Yeah that's a really good idea. Xringer, how much did that heat pump set ya back? I don't have A/C ducts in the house it runs on giant radiators. Ryland, as far as the outside of the house is concerned it's all brick, I don't think I can mess with that. But yeah that blow in insulation seems like the way to go in the attic. It also seems much cheaper. I was buying insulation at Lowe's that is the non glass type and it's super expensive. R19 is $50 for 50 sq ft coverage.

01-11-10, 06:47 AM	#1
cholcombe Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56 Thanks: 13 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Heating Options Hi Guys I've been following the posts on here for awhile. It seems like everyone is working really hard to make their homes more eco friendly. I keep looking into the options for my home but I've been coming up empty and wondered what the people here think. I live in a suburb of philadelphia and I'm surrounded by other houses and tall tree's. So the morning sun is mostly blocked and the wind here is low most times. I live on .20 acres and I have a 1500 sq ft house so my free and clear land is fairly small so geothermal would have to go deep. Any ideas on what kind of power options I have? I'd really like to stop using oil heat. Thanks guys!

01-11-10, 06:57 AM	#2
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Well, it sounds like your only option is a heat pump system possibly like AC Hacker is doing. However, as always, conservation is number 1. If you simply work on your house to improve the insulation, you'd probably have a much larger impact on your energy consumption. This is my current plan. Do a search here or on google for super insulated houses. Their energy loss is amazingly low. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-11-10, 09:10 AM	#4
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I'd go with much more than R30. I'd go up to R60, and actually, I did this past fall. My house too is over 100 years old and my upstairs rooms have no insulation in the walls. I know what its like. I'm thinking of going with something similar to a mooney wall to increase the wall insulation. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-11-10, 09:17 AM	#6
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Nope, no worries at all really. With the cellulose (environmentally friendly and better than fiberglass), you can simply shovel it to the side if you need to get up there for anything. I did some work ahead of time adding wiring to my upstairs bedrooms so I wouldn't need to get up there for some time. As for storage, we don't use it. However, I did add a platform if we ever needed it in the future. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-11-10, 09:05 AM	#3
cholcombe Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56 Thanks: 13 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yeah those are both good ideas. Do you think a heat pump setup would be hard for a DIY'er like myself? I wouldn't say I know how to plumb but I have a book to learn how. My home has those giant cast iron radiators, do you think a heat pump would work with those? I'd imagine it would. Yeah I agree conservation is something I've been working on. I've started removing the old rock wool insulation in the attic because it's old and replacing it with R30 stuff. That already seems to have helped. I also want to insulate the walls because they feel icy cold. My house is 109 yrs old so I'm not sure they were too concerned with insulation back then.

01-11-10, 09:12 AM	#5
cholcombe Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56 Thanks: 13 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Interesting... are you concerned at all that once you put in the R60 that you can't walk around in the attic anymore? Not that I need the space or anything but I wonder what would happen if I had to get around in there for some reason.

01-12-10, 11:55 AM	#7
cholcombe Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56 Thanks: 13 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Daox I checked out that mooney wall that looks interesting. The walls right now are ice cold I'm sure it won't be long before I get mad and want to rip them apart to insulate them.

01-12-10, 06:10 PM	#8
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Geothermal is just too much work (or too costly).. Mini-spit AC/heat pumps work almost as well.. From what I have learned from my experiment with the Sanyo 24,000 BTU, so far, it's a viable technology. And best of all, my electricity bill didn't increase.. I'm really ticked right now, because my system has failed.. and I'm waiting for a new Outdoor unit.. We are burning a lot of oil these days! Anyways, I've been thinking about the day when my warranty runs out, or I get bored with things.. I can plumb the two R-410A lines into two heat-exchanger units. That means that I can experiment with making hot water in the summer and perhaps try out a ground loop in the winter time.?. Since the system worked so well down to the 10 degree range, (even with a refrigerant leak), I'm not sure a ground loop is even necessary in this area of the country. The exchanger(s) would be inserted into the lines near the outdoor unit. The lineset is extra long, so it could be fed right into the basement.

01-12-10, 10:50 PM	#9
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	I've insulated a number of attics and I would never put less then R60 in an attic, blowing insulation in is by far the easiest and best way to insulate and once you get set up you might as well pile more in! first, mark the depth with bright paint or something so you can see how far you have left to go then seal the outside edges with foam, create foam shoots for venting the roof out of 2" foam or reflective coated foam, take expanding foam and seal every gap you can find up there, if you have an active chimney then use a fire proof insulation around that, make the top of your house tight! If your walls are cold then insulate them too of course, it's going to be harder but well worth it, if your house needs siding then that is part of the answer right there, insulate under the siding, sealing around every door, window and the foundation, I would go with 2" foam on the outside if you can, blow in insulation in to the walls if you can too, if you can't insulate the outside then add it to the inside, if you are on a budget then just do a room at a time, as your heating bills drop set that money aside for more insulation.

01-13-10, 10:30 AM	#10
cholcombe Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56 Thanks: 13 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yeah that's a really good idea. Xringer, how much did that heat pump set ya back? I don't have A/C ducts in the house it runs on giant radiators. Ryland, as far as the outside of the house is concerned it's all brick, I don't think I can mess with that. But yeah that blow in insulation seems like the way to go in the attic. It also seems much cheaper. I was buying insulation at Lowe's that is the non glass type and it's super expensive. R19 is $50 for 50 sq ft coverage.