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Old 06-29-12, 02:53 PM   #51
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Update:

It's 97° outside and 72° in the basement. It's always cool down there. The temperature fluctuation between summer and winter seems to be about 10°.

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Old 07-02-12, 12:28 PM   #52
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I'm glad to hear all the hard work is paying off!
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Old 07-09-12, 03:14 PM   #53
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Update:







This next one is taking up the space my Dali Last Supper previously occupied, and I'm not entirely happy about that.





EDIT: Oh, BTW, Mitsubishi Mr. Slim units with the Hyper Heat™. These things are supposed to operate at full capacity down to 0° F. I have it from reliable sources that they do indeed put out over 105° F below 0°. They are each 3/4 ton units. It's more than enough for cooling and it's just under what I "should" need for heating. Anyone want to buy an 80,000 BTU Buderus boiler For short money? It would really be a shame to have to scrap the thing as it works very well and most likely will never fail. I just don't need 80,000 BTU to heat a hot water tank.

EDIT Part 2:

I didn't install these. I work about a million hours a week and didn't have the spare cycles to make it happen. I did take the day off from work to hang out with the techs who did do the install and supervise them while drinking adult beverages. The install is really stupid easy. They basically had them both put together by lunch time. And they arrived at about 9:00. Really most of the work was hanging the inside unit. The rest was just plugging things together. For the record they didn't ream the flares (they shortened the line sets) or anything like that. They had a super slick flare tool that has the point off center which slowly rounds out the flare. No de-burring necessary. Although they did inspect the flares to make sure. The flare tools were also ratcheting and they cut out at the proper torque. No way to screw it up. It's all full of 400 PSI of Nitrogen for the night. In the morning, after inspection for pressure loss, they get sucked out and then the charge gets let loose. Simple.

While I don't like spending money on anything, and especially on labor for something so simple, I had a great time sitting in a lawn chair, on my first day off in God knows how long, shooting the breeze with the techs on all this kind of thing and soaking up their straight forward attitude to the work.
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You know you're an ecorenovator if anything worth insulating is worth superinsulating.
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S-F: "What happens when you slam the door on a really tight house? Do the basement windows blow out?"

Green Building Guru: "You can't slam the door on a really tight house. You have to work to pull it shut."

Last edited by S-F; 07-09-12 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 07-09-12, 05:04 PM   #54
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Looks nice. If you don't mind, what did the two units plus install set you back?
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Old 07-09-12, 05:21 PM   #55
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About $6,400. I made the pads and did the wiring. Not sure what that cut off the cost but the materials alone for that stuff was close to $300. Also, I ran 14/3 (yes the units each need only 15 amps) when I only needed 14/2 (which I'm sitting on close to 1,000' of). I thought these things needed a neutral thinking the indoor unit had some 110v demand.
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You know you're an ecorenovator if anything worth insulating is worth superinsulating.
Quote:
S-F: "What happens when you slam the door on a really tight house? Do the basement windows blow out?"

Green Building Guru: "You can't slam the door on a really tight house. You have to work to pull it shut."
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Old 07-09-12, 05:33 PM   #56
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Congrats on the install... it's really not so tough, is it? Sounds like you got a lesson, just watching.

Nice pix, although the blog robot 'resizes' anything bigger than 640x480 pixels. Sometimes the faster loading 640x480 (& smaller) just don't show critical detail, and you really need to go with the bigger view...

Best,

-AC
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Old 07-09-12, 05:49 PM   #57
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Yes, I learned a lot. I had some concerns about the installation which are now ALL gone. From reading Xringer's log of his install I was thinking that it was a much larger procedure than it really is. You basically install the indoor unit, which is the hard part, connect the wires and line set, pressurize it, wait, pump down and open it up. That's it. These guys took their time and basically had it done in three hours. Two mini splits with two guys. They didn't use goop on the flare fittings, although they said that it's fine to do that if you want and they showed me the grease that they would use. No torque wrenches. Just tighten it enough but not too much, like the valve cover on an engine. If you make the flare too thin just cut it off and do it over. No big deal. For the folks out there, don't have any fear of the process. Honestly, even now, knowing what I know I would still have paid for the labor. They had complete confidence about things like the charge. There was a while in the Xringer/Sanyo thread where there was speculation about the charge being wrong. And at the same time I saw how it should be done by people who do it all the time. And BTW, the line set tubing is very flexible. I screwed around with some of the scraps and they, in particular the smaller one, can be bent into circles and all kinds of strange shapes without folding.


Oh, one more thing. I was ready to pour a concrete pad, per the Xringer/Sanyo thread but was instructed not to. I was told that with a heat pump you want it elevated and placed on a porous material so that in the winter the run off from the defrost cycle can escape. The pads are a PT 2x6 frame with landscaping fabric on the bottom and filled with gravel, per the instructions of the guru.
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You know you're an ecorenovator if anything worth insulating is worth superinsulating.
Quote:
S-F: "What happens when you slam the door on a really tight house? Do the basement windows blow out?"

Green Building Guru: "You can't slam the door on a really tight house. You have to work to pull it shut."

Last edited by S-F; 07-09-12 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 07-09-12, 06:33 PM   #58
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Congrads on the systems! Nice machines. I know you're going to love them!
The price is surprisingly low. Was the dealer/installer related to you?
At $3,200 each, you really made out well.
How much do you think you saved by doing the pad & electrical prep work?


When I did my second install, I wasn't so worked up about the pad.
And, experience helped a lot. #2 went much faster.
I've looked at a dozen+ local mini-split installs during the last few years,
and I don't think any of them had a fancy pad like mine (#1).
A lot of them are just sitting on bricks or patio pavers.
I did angle that pad so the water would run off away from the house.

It was real humid last night when I went to bed, so I left the Sanyos in dehumidify mode.
My wife was so cold this morning, she shut them off before sunup.
At least the air was dry.
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Old 07-09-12, 06:40 PM   #59
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XRinger, Honestly I feel like I got bent over on the cost of the labor. I'm happily paying it, but it still sucks. I think the cost of materials for them was close to $2,000 less than what I give them. That's 2 grand for these guys to do very little. They earned it though because now I'm a full fledged mini split installer.
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You know you're an ecorenovator if anything worth insulating is worth superinsulating.
Quote:
S-F: "What happens when you slam the door on a really tight house? Do the basement windows blow out?"

Green Building Guru: "You can't slam the door on a really tight house. You have to work to pull it shut."
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Old 07-09-12, 07:16 PM   #60
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I've heard of many people getting discouraged from buying a mini-split
because of installed cost was about 2.5 to 3 times the price for the unit (seen on the web).
So, it seems to me like you got the labor for $1,000 each unit.
Yeah, it seems high to me too, but not to a lot of installers.

With your prep work, and what looks like plain vanilla installs, they didn't have
to do a ton of work for their money. But, you got a good deal compared to what many folks pay.

Nice that it's warm weather. They don't have to spend a lot of time on the vacuuming.

The next time we have a heat wave, you're going to forget all about labor cost..

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