Remodeling the office (new floor, ceiling & adding insulation) passive house retrofit - Page 22

AC_Hacker · 04-02-14, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

Nope! I'm learning way too much. The next room I do will be done different, go faster, and cheaper too.

The one thing I did hire out
(cellulose blowing) I'd like to try my hand at.

Spiral PEX Layout

I still think that the spiral layout is best (even a two-tube spiral). It involves less 180 degree PEX bending.

-AC

Exeric · 04-02-14, 03:25 PM

Daox, have you called a blower manufacturer to find out what's available for rental in your area? That's the very first thing to do in preparation for cellulose blowing. Considering our mutual problem of getting info locally it would be foolish to set yourself up for disappointment a second time by ignoring the fact that there might not be anything locally available. I was eventually lucky enough to find a lumber yard locally through Intec, Intec - Manufacturing Insulation blowing machines since 1977. [phone 1-800-666-1611] that didn't charge for rental. Their only stipulation was that I had to buy cellulose from them (any amount!) and to not keep it over a week.

Do your homework if you haven't already and let us know!

MN Renovator · 04-02-14, 07:06 PM

I wish I would have thought of that. I bought over 1000 pounds of cellulose for $234.50, not counting the 11% off deal I got on the first 905 pounds(50 bags) of it, I bought the rest from someone who had some left over from a wall insulation job. I wonder if buying from a lumber yard that would let me keep it for a week would have saved more than the $50 for a daily blower rental at Home Depot. I couldn't go with Home Depot cellulose because they want way too much per bag to get the free blower unless I really only need 20 bags but that wasn't enough for me.

Exeric · 04-02-14, 07:43 PM

It sounds like you got a really good deal on the cellulose. The best price I got averaged about 10 bucks for a 20 lb bag (45 of them). So a total of $450. We probably came out about even after your rental costs. I kept the machine for about 6 days working at a leisurely pace. That leisurely pace is worth something.

MN Renovator · 04-02-14, 08:18 PM

6 days to blow 45 bags? I'm all for taking my time but I don't think I want to spend that much time in dusty hot conditions. I was thinking of maybe taking two four hour rentals for each of the two attic elevations for $35 each. This would allow me to fill the easier bottom half and give me more time to cut out and remove the skylight shaft(had the bathroom boiling skylight removed when reroofing) before putting insulation in the upper part of the attic.

I was thinking of having 3 guys, me in the attic, with two others breaking up and throwing the insulation in the blower with one handling communication(thinking walkies) where needed. To me it seems the real work with attic blowing is in prep, being sure that insulation won't go into baffles or places you don't want it to and marking your depth in some way or another.

I do have two others that are interested in insulating their attics though so I'll call around because if I can get a blower for a week for free too, they can buy the insulation from the lumber yard, I get my insulation blown in and we'll have the time to get the job done.

Exeric · 04-02-14, 10:54 PM

Well, it didn't seem leisurely to me at all at the time, just comparatively speaking. It actually took three days to fill. But that didn't include two extra trips, 45 minutes each way, just to pick up extra cellulose in my mini pickup. You also have to include a full day for 2 up and back trips to get the blower and later return it. Plus, I did it all myself which meant frequent start and stoppage moves to the blower to push down the cellulose. I really enjoy doing things all by myself as it really gives me a sense of accomplishment afterwords. But you definitely have to allow more time if that's the way you go. I really wasn't slacking off even if I might have made it sound like that.

Daox · 04-03-14, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exeric

Daox, have you called a blower manufacturer to find out what's available for rental in your area?

Do your homework if you haven't already and let us know!

No, I haven't contacted any manufacturers. I have called around to see what blowers were available from local places and I came up empty just as you did. Next time I look into it I will follow your advise, thanks!

Daox · 04-21-14, 09:27 AM

The office floor work continues... very frustratingly and slowly. Last week and this past weekend I've probably worked on the floor for 10 hours or so with help. Below is the progress you see. The bamboo flooring I selected is horrible to work with, or I don't know how to work with it. I rented an 'engineered flooring stapler' which shoots 20 gauge staples. The flooring says to use 18 to 20 gauge staples. Well, the bamboo is so hard that the 20 gauge staples end up curling up on themselves more than half the time. This leaves a bugger of staple to clean up so the next board (its tongue and groove) can fit on the first piece. The other half of the time they'd sink in perfectly. It has been incredibly slow going.

At this point, I'm going to resort to pre-drilling and hand nailing with finish nails. I had to do this for one row where the staples would have punctured the tubing. I drilled the holes more vertically to miss the tube, and it wasn't any slower than the stapler.

A friend at work is going to let me borrow a normal finish nailer and I'll see if I can't make that work.

Suggestions are very welcome.

Also, another slightly disappointing thing is the floor does creek a bit when walking over it. It has to do with the aluminum plates, and I'm not sure how you would avoid this. Its not that bad though and something that probably won't bother me.

mrd · 04-21-14, 04:33 PM

I've never nailed/stapled flooring but I believe you're supposed to fasten through the tongue and it's hard to tell but looks like you're stapling the groove in your pictures. If so, you may be able to find & insert a spline to allow you to continue onward. Maybe that's why it's giving you grief??

Another option would be to use a larger gauge fastener; it'd be less prone to bending.

stevehull · 04-21-14, 06:10 PM

I also think the stapler is too "wimpy". Can the air pressure be increased?

Steve

04-02-14, 03:25 PM	#212
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	Daox, have you called a blower manufacturer to find out what's available for rental in your area? That's the very first thing to do in preparation for cellulose blowing. Considering our mutual problem of getting info locally it would be foolish to set yourself up for disappointment a second time by ignoring the fact that there might not be anything locally available. I was eventually lucky enough to find a lumber yard locally through Intec, Intec - Manufacturing Insulation blowing machines since 1977. [phone 1-800-666-1611] that didn't charge for rental. Their only stipulation was that I had to buy cellulose from them (any amount!) and to not keep it over a week. Do your homework if you haven't already and let us know! Last edited by Exeric; 04-02-14 at 03:27 PM..

04-21-14, 09:27 AM	#218
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The office floor work continues... very frustratingly and slowly. Last week and this past weekend I've probably worked on the floor for 10 hours or so with help. Below is the progress you see. The bamboo flooring I selected is horrible to work with, or I don't know how to work with it. I rented an 'engineered flooring stapler' which shoots 20 gauge staples. The flooring says to use 18 to 20 gauge staples. Well, the bamboo is so hard that the 20 gauge staples end up curling up on themselves more than half the time. This leaves a bugger of staple to clean up so the next board (its tongue and groove) can fit on the first piece. The other half of the time they'd sink in perfectly. It has been incredibly slow going. At this point, I'm going to resort to pre-drilling and hand nailing with finish nails. I had to do this for one row where the staples would have punctured the tubing. I drilled the holes more vertically to miss the tube, and it wasn't any slower than the stapler. A friend at work is going to let me borrow a normal finish nailer and I'll see if I can't make that work. Suggestions are very welcome. Also, another slightly disappointing thing is the floor does creek a bit when walking over it. It has to do with the aluminum plates, and I'm not sure how you would avoid this. Its not that bad though and something that probably won't bother me. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 04-21-14 at 09:32 AM..

04-21-14, 04:33 PM	#219
mrd Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milford, DE Posts: 106 Thanks: 5 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I've never nailed/stapled flooring but I believe you're supposed to fasten through the tongue and it's hard to tell but looks like you're stapling the groove in your pictures. If so, you may be able to find & insert a spline to allow you to continue onward. Maybe that's why it's giving you grief?? Another option would be to use a larger gauge fastener; it'd be less prone to bending. Last edited by mrd; 04-21-14 at 04:35 PM..

04-21-14, 06:10 PM	#220
stevehull Steve Hull Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: hilly, tree covered Arcadia, OK USA Posts: 826 Thanks: 241 Thanked 165 Times in 123 Posts	I also think the stapler is too "wimpy". Can the air pressure be increased? Steve __________________ consulting on geothermal heating/cooling & rational energy use since 1990

04-02-14, 07:06 PM	#213
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 939 Thanks: 41 Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts	I wish I would have thought of that. I bought over 1000 pounds of cellulose for $234.50, not counting the 11% off deal I got on the first 905 pounds(50 bags) of it, I bought the rest from someone who had some left over from a wall insulation job. I wonder if buying from a lumber yard that would let me keep it for a week would have saved more than the $50 for a daily blower rental at Home Depot. I couldn't go with Home Depot cellulose because they want way too much per bag to get the free blower unless I really only need 20 bags but that wasn't enough for me.

04-02-14, 07:43 PM	#214
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	It sounds like you got a really good deal on the cellulose. The best price I got averaged about 10 bucks for a 20 lb bag (45 of them). So a total of $450. We probably came out about even after your rental costs. I kept the machine for about 6 days working at a leisurely pace. That leisurely pace is worth something.

04-02-14, 08:18 PM	#215
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 939 Thanks: 41 Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts	6 days to blow 45 bags? I'm all for taking my time but I don't think I want to spend that much time in dusty hot conditions. I was thinking of maybe taking two four hour rentals for each of the two attic elevations for $35 each. This would allow me to fill the easier bottom half and give me more time to cut out and remove the skylight shaft(had the bathroom boiling skylight removed when reroofing) before putting insulation in the upper part of the attic. I was thinking of having 3 guys, me in the attic, with two others breaking up and throwing the insulation in the blower with one handling communication(thinking walkies) where needed. To me it seems the real work with attic blowing is in prep, being sure that insulation won't go into baffles or places you don't want it to and marking your depth in some way or another. I do have two others that are interested in insulating their attics though so I'll call around because if I can get a blower for a week for free too, they can buy the insulation from the lumber yard, I get my insulation blown in and we'll have the time to get the job done.

04-02-14, 10:54 PM	#216
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	Well, it didn't seem leisurely to me at all at the time, just comparatively speaking. It actually took three days to fill. But that didn't include two extra trips, 45 minutes each way, just to pick up extra cellulose in my mini pickup. You also have to include a full day for 2 up and back trips to get the blower and later return it. Plus, I did it all myself which meant frequent start and stoppage moves to the blower to push down the cellulose. I really enjoy doing things all by myself as it really gives me a sense of accomplishment afterwords. But you definitely have to allow more time if that's the way you go. I really wasn't slacking off even if I might have made it sound like that.