Remodeling the office (new floor, ceiling & adding insulation) passive house retrofit - Page 19

AC_Hacker · 12-29-13, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

Just a little update. Before getting the floors all done, I wanted to get painting done...

I've been thinking so much about your remodel, I almost feel like I thought all your PEX into place!

But seriously, were there any issues that you encountered with the plates or PEX?

Are you still considering some kind of pour-in heat conductive material for the curved parts? The reason I suggested mortar is that it has a high sand content, and I think that would give it reasonable conductivity... and it's thrifty.

Good work.

-AC

Daox · 12-30-13, 08:28 AM

Haha, thats pretty funny. I wish I could think the rest of this project done.

The only problem I've encountered so far is the lack of necessary tools to staple down the aluminum heat spreaders. I tried a hammer/swing stapler and it just didn't work out well. Then I tried a hand stapler, not enough power. I will probably try a electric stapler tonight, but I don't think that'll cut the mustard either.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/tools/...spreaders.html

So, I am going to try a pneumatic stapler.

That being said, I haven't actually put down the heat spreaders yet or the tubing. The pictures you see are just test fits. When I cut the plywood strips, I did leave a generous gap between them for the heat spreaders. Still, there will definitely be some cutting involved here and there, at the very least to get the correct lengths.

For the curved parts, I am going to see how much of a pain it is to cut the aluminum pieces. However, I probably will end up putting something in there. Who knows, maybe I'll do a combination? I'd really rather not loose any heat conducting area. With the 3 parallel PEX lines, that area is not insignificant.

Daox · 12-30-13, 08:37 AM

One more thing I've been thinking about is how to make all 3 parallel tubing runs the same length? If they're unequal, the flow will be unequal. According to my CAD layout, each line is about 143 feet. So, if I'm off a foot or two, is that going to unbalance the flow that much? I'm thinking no, but would appreciate any feedback.

gasstingy · 12-30-13, 08:42 AM

I don't think you would be able to discern the difference. IMHO, each of the three runs of the same size Pex should have the same heat carrying capacity per foot, so any difference a foot or two +/- makes is a non-issue.

AC_Hacker · 12-30-13, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

One more thing I've been thinking about is how to make all 3 parallel tubing runs the same length? If they're unequal, the flow will be unequal. According to my CAD layout, each line is about 143 feet. So, if I'm off a foot or two, is that going to unbalance the flow that much? I'm thinking no, but would appreciate any feedback.

The difference in length will cause a difference in fluid resistance, but it is a linear change.

So, if you are different by 2 feet, the change will be 100 x (2/143) = 1.4%

That's a very small variation.

Therefore, not to worry.

-AC

Daox · 02-08-14, 03:04 PM

What has been holding up the floor progress is what you see below. Yay, its done!

Exeric · 02-08-14, 03:11 PM

Very impressive! Congratulations on the good work you've done. The end looks like its in sight, at least in the office. Other things always seem to come up, I know.

gasstingy · 02-10-14, 08:06 AM

Looks good! I know you're proud to be that much closer to finishing this room so you can move on to other projects!

Daox · 02-14-14, 09:43 PM

The bulk of the next step I got done tonight. All of the full size aluminum heat spreaders have been stapled down. It was a pretty quick job. With just me doing it, it only took an hour. I estimate another hour to cut a bunch of the heat spreaders to fill in as much as I can. After that I will play around with AC's idea about using mortar to fill in the remaining area. As you can see, the areas where the heat spreader can't reach is quite a bit with the 3 parallel pex lines being run.

For those looking for specifics, I use a pneumatic stapler. No other stapler I tried worked. I did have to run my pressure around 55 psi to prevent from blowing through the aluminum. It went very smoothly after I got the pressure set. I only had to hammer in about 3 staples. I left only about 1/8" between the heat spreaders length wise. When I laid the heat spreaders in the groove, I shifted them to one side (consistently for the whole room), and stapled that side. This helped give room to play since my plates were so close together. Only in a couple spots did my plates get really close, so there should be room for them to expand when they heat up. With the grooves cut extra wide, there was enough play to align things when needed. I did use a small length of pex tubing to test the fit after putting in some of the heat spreaders. But, the aluminum plates aren't so thick that they won't give to allow for some misalignment when the tube exits one spreader and enters the next.

Just starting out:

All done (for now):

Here is what the bend area looks like. There will be some plates cut to length and fit in there. However, I'll have to figure out something for the radiused areas. There is too much surface area to loose there to not do anything.

mrd · 02-15-14, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

However, I'll have to figure out something for the radiused areas. There is too much surface area to loose there to not do anything.

Maybe an aluminum paint, something like this: Attic Radiant Barrier Paint, Wall Vapor Retarder Coating

12-30-13, 08:28 AM	#182
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Haha, thats pretty funny. I wish I could think the rest of this project done. The only problem I've encountered so far is the lack of necessary tools to staple down the aluminum heat spreaders. I tried a hammer/swing stapler and it just didn't work out well. Then I tried a hand stapler, not enough power. I will probably try a electric stapler tonight, but I don't think that'll cut the mustard either. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/tools/...spreaders.html So, I am going to try a pneumatic stapler. That being said, I haven't actually put down the heat spreaders yet or the tubing. The pictures you see are just test fits. When I cut the plywood strips, I did leave a generous gap between them for the heat spreaders. Still, there will definitely be some cutting involved here and there, at the very least to get the correct lengths. For the curved parts, I am going to see how much of a pain it is to cut the aluminum pieces. However, I probably will end up putting something in there. Who knows, maybe I'll do a combination? I'd really rather not loose any heat conducting area. With the 3 parallel PEX lines, that area is not insignificant. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-30-13, 08:37 AM	#183
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	One more thing I've been thinking about is how to make all 3 parallel tubing runs the same length? If they're unequal, the flow will be unequal. According to my CAD layout, each line is about 143 feet. So, if I'm off a foot or two, is that going to unbalance the flow that much? I'm thinking no, but would appreciate any feedback. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-30-13, 08:42 AM	#184
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	I don't think you would be able to discern the difference. IMHO, each of the three runs of the same size Pex should have the same heat carrying capacity per foot, so any difference a foot or two +/- makes is a non-issue. Last edited by gasstingy; 12-30-13 at 08:43 AM.. Reason: left a word out

02-08-14, 03:04 PM	#186
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	What has been holding up the floor progress is what you see below. Yay, its done! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-14-14, 09:43 PM	#189
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The bulk of the next step I got done tonight. All of the full size aluminum heat spreaders have been stapled down. It was a pretty quick job. With just me doing it, it only took an hour. I estimate another hour to cut a bunch of the heat spreaders to fill in as much as I can. After that I will play around with AC's idea about using mortar to fill in the remaining area. As you can see, the areas where the heat spreader can't reach is quite a bit with the 3 parallel pex lines being run. For those looking for specifics, I use a pneumatic stapler. No other stapler I tried worked. I did have to run my pressure around 55 psi to prevent from blowing through the aluminum. It went very smoothly after I got the pressure set. I only had to hammer in about 3 staples. I left only about 1/8" between the heat spreaders length wise. When I laid the heat spreaders in the groove, I shifted them to one side (consistently for the whole room), and stapled that side. This helped give room to play since my plates were so close together. Only in a couple spots did my plates get really close, so there should be room for them to expand when they heat up. With the grooves cut extra wide, there was enough play to align things when needed. I did use a small length of pex tubing to test the fit after putting in some of the heat spreaders. But, the aluminum plates aren't so thick that they won't give to allow for some misalignment when the tube exits one spreader and enters the next. Just starting out: All done (for now): Here is what the bend area looks like. There will be some plates cut to length and fit in there. However, I'll have to figure out something for the radiused areas. There is too much surface area to loose there to not do anything. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-08-14, 03:11 PM	#187
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	Very impressive! Congratulations on the good work you've done. The end looks like its in sight, at least in the office. Other things always seem to come up, I know.

02-10-14, 08:06 AM	#188
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	Looks good! I know you're proud to be that much closer to finishing this room so you can move on to other projects!