What is your average kWh/day usage? - Page 6

Daox · 11-03-11, 12:03 PM

You should really look into those dual flush conversion kits. They only cost $20 or $25 and could probably pay for themselves in no time. Also, low flow shower heads would be perfect for your house, especially with 3 women.

I'd recommend the shower head that we just gave away in our contest, the Niagara Conservation 1.25GPM Earth showerhead. I recently bought one (they're only $10!) and even my wife loves it. They also have great reviews on amazon.

Big Al · 11-03-11, 04:11 PM

Apologies here from me to Daox, A.C H , and Sringer as well as in Billiards room for going off thread. Difficult for me to post comprehensive data as from month to month I find first my energy company owes me a bit, then I owe them a bit-thats what happens with direct debits.
However I will dig this out and post.
I do think we need floor areas, number in family, where resident etc in addition to the basic data. Still its a very interesting thread even if the comparisons are not that meaningful without a lot of background data. Meanwhile I still doff my hat to piwoslaw and will try the coffee substitute.

strider3700 · 11-03-11, 04:55 PM

you should make a spreadsheet filling in the data as far back as you can find the info. That will give you the best idea of what is going on.

A thread on mine is here,
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-tracking.html

and a direct link to the spreadsheet is here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...thkey=CJC147YI

If you have any questions/difficulties with it just let me know. It's an all electric house so it may not meet all of your needs.

Doax has a similar excellent one here
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-tracking.html

He has multiple fuels so it may be a better fit.

When you start tracking this information to this level you can start to find patterns and make appropriate changes.

AC_Hacker · 11-03-11, 05:29 PM

I think Big Al's call for more background information is spot on.

So here's my information:

Where I live, Heating Degree Days is about 4,500.

I am the only occupant of my house.

Total square footage = 1408 sq. ft.

When I originally got the house there was no insulation. I installed insulation, using fiberglass batting, R-13.

Then I got religion and have thickened the walls and ceiling to 6" and have been layering in 2" sheets of EPS rigid foam, sealing everything with Greatstuff foam, as I go. Very slow process. The foam and rigid insulation is working great, but there are parts of the house I will need to re-do (R-13 fiberglass), now that I have a good method.

The foam layers & sealing have made parts of the house a bit uncomfortable because the lack of infiltration has revealed the need for mechanical ventilation. So, a Heat Recovery Ventilator is not just a good idea, it is a necessity.

Previous heating was natural gas forced air, which has been decommissioned.

Current house heating is a 3/4 Ton mini-split, which puts out 12,000 BTU max.

In the winter, I only heat one room, which has an area of 180 sq. ft. Even though I keep it pretty toasty, because the size is so small, the cost of heating is quite low. The heated room only has R-13 insulation. I find that through most of the winter, there is enough heat leaking into other rooms that they are at least tolerable.

When the thermometer takes a serious dive, it really makes a difference in my house, but the mini-split has been able to keep up even down to 12F. At 12F, it's COP drops to around 2 or less (that is an educated guess based on power readings of the mini-split).

I heat water with a tankless (demand) natural gas water heater.

I have some electric heaters that I use as required for tasks in the unheated rooms.

The only heat the kitchen sees is from the gas stove.

I have a wood stove in the basement. where my shop is. If I'm going to be there for an extended period, I build a fire. If I'm just there for a quick task, I might use an electric heater. I am considering a small cheap mini-split for the basement.

Last winter, I tested out my homemade heat pump and GSHP loop field, by letting the heat pump run continuously , 24/7 for nearly two months. It did a fair job of keeping the uninsulated basement warm. It also pulled the temp of the loop field down from 52F to 38F during that time.

I have replaced all incandescent lights with CFL lights. I am in the process of replacing certain CFLs with LED lights.

I'll edit in my gas use, the bill should be here in a day or two.

EDIT: (Just dug up my gas bill for Oct.)

Oct Gas use = 4.1 Therm = 120.16 kWh = 3.88 kWh/day

Combined Oct (elec + gas) = 9.8 kWh + 3.88 kWh

Combined Oct (elec + gas) = 13.68 kWh/day

If we're really going to do this, we should also convert our automobile fuel to kWh, and include that.

My, my, my, won't that be a shocker!

-AC_Hacker

strider3700 · 11-03-11, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

Where I live, Heating Degree Days is about 4,500.

what temp do you use to determine this? degreedays.net uses 16.5C as the default but that made little sense to my energy usage - I don't cool to 16.5C and I turn on the heat above that level so I use 18.5C for both HDD and CDD. It turns out CDD means very little in my energy usage so I don't do much with it.

AC_Hacker · 11-03-11, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

what temp do you use to determine this?

I'm pretty sure I got it from this web site.

Better resolution map here...

I'm sure you can locate HDD & CDD info very easily for Canada.

I did a comparison in a thread somewhere in this forum, where I calculated the required thickness of a Passive House wall, and I'm pretty sure I used the above link.

BTW, actually calculating the required thickness is very complex, depending on solar gain, and many other factors. I just wanted to give folks a ball park idea.

But don't get too nervous about how HDD applies to your lifestyle, it's kind of a first-cut estimation tool that does get used quite frequently in house design and heating and cooling design. A precise design would need to account for many other factors. Including how microclimate can affect HDD and CDD.

-AC_Hacker

Piwoslaw · 11-04-11, 02:17 AM

Now we're gently heading off topic in another direction. All this about size, insulation, what you use for heating/cooling, etc., would be fed into the energy tracker. Unfortunately it appears that work on it has halted for lack of anyone to actually write the code. If anyone would be up to it then please let us know. Until then we can keep fine-tuning what we want in that tracker and how it should be done. Here's the thread:
Energy tracker development - we need your input

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

what temp do you use to determine this? degreedays.net uses 16.5C as the default

I thought 15.5°C? Maybe it's regional?

The master plan · 11-04-11, 05:08 AM

ELECTRIC WATER HEAT

YTD Charges $515.03 $96.30 $301.00

Readings:

Present: 5715 564 37543

Previous: 5233 561 37531

Consumption:
OCT 482 300 120
SEP 517 300
AUG 667 200
JUL 396 200
JUN 362 200 260
MAY 397 200 1180
APR 600 200 2630
MAR 471 200 1910
FEB 498 200 530
JAN 451 200 210
DEC 421 200 220
NOV 409 300 110

Total: 5671 2700 7170
Average: 472 225 597

I ran out of firewood in March...That is the reason for the big jump in heat.

benpope · 11-05-11, 10:03 PM

Adding natural gas...

Edited since I messed up the kWh -> Natural Gas conversion. Now includes gasoline at 9.7 kW·h/L or 36.6 kWh/US gal.

Electric: 16.8 kWh/day (includes water heater)
Gas: 15.69 kWh/day equivalent (heat = 13 and cooking = 1)

House Total: 32.5 kWh/day

Gasoline: About 36.6 kWh/day

Grand total: 69.1 kWh/day for two people

In the past week I've added the ohh so lovely dual flush conversion kit (thanks!), a water heater timer, and attic insulation to a difficult to access addition. I've set the timer to turn on the water heater for 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the evening. I think this is probably overkill - it may do better to turn on only once per day. Any suggestions?

sparkchaser · 11-06-11, 01:24 AM

Here is a quick data-dump of my place. It is a 1960 ranch style home about 2300 sq ft and is poorly insulated, heated with electric space heaters. When I bought the place last year it had an old oil furnace that didn't work and 2 wood stoves which my wife had me remove immediately! So last winter was heated with the 5 space heaters and an older mini-split heat pump. Kinda cold all winter and hot in the summer! So, next Friday the insulation contractor is coming to blow in cellulose in the attic to R-49. I sure hope this helps! I'll also be crawling around the attic with spray foam looking to seal any air leaks before they are hidden by insulation! Next year's project will be to do the crawl space under the house, possibly followed by rigid foam under the siding. I'm also watching craigslist for another heat pump.

I'm no expert with Excel, so I am looking closely at other folks' spreadsheets trying to learn how to make my data more usable!

11-03-11, 12:03 PM	#51
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	You should really look into those dual flush conversion kits. They only cost $20 or $25 and could probably pay for themselves in no time. Also, low flow shower heads would be perfect for your house, especially with 3 women. I'd recommend the shower head that we just gave away in our contest, the Niagara Conservation 1.25GPM Earth showerhead. I recently bought one (they're only $10!) and even my wife loves it. They also have great reviews on amazon. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-03-11, 04:11 PM	#52
Big Al Big Al Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Scotland Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Apologies here from me to Daox, A.C H , and Sringer as well as in Billiards room for going off thread. Difficult for me to post comprehensive data as from month to month I find first my energy company owes me a bit, then I owe them a bit-thats what happens with direct debits. However I will dig this out and post. I do think we need floor areas, number in family, where resident etc in addition to the basic data. Still its a very interesting thread even if the comparisons are not that meaningful without a lot of background data. Meanwhile I still doff my hat to piwoslaw and will try the coffee substitute. __________________ Every day is a school day and it is the duty of all former colonies (you know who you are ) to come to the aid of the Mother country against imperialist b----ds. Big Al

11-03-11, 05:29 PM	#54
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts	I think Big Al's call for more background information is spot on. So here's my information: Where I live, Heating Degree Days is about 4,500. I am the only occupant of my house. Total square footage = 1408 sq. ft. When I originally got the house there was no insulation. I installed insulation, using fiberglass batting, R-13. Then I got religion and have thickened the walls and ceiling to 6" and have been layering in 2" sheets of EPS rigid foam, sealing everything with Greatstuff foam, as I go. Very slow process. The foam and rigid insulation is working great, but there are parts of the house I will need to re-do (R-13 fiberglass), now that I have a good method. The foam layers & sealing have made parts of the house a bit uncomfortable because the lack of infiltration has revealed the need for mechanical ventilation. So, a Heat Recovery Ventilator is not just a good idea, it is a necessity. Previous heating was natural gas forced air, which has been decommissioned. Current house heating is a 3/4 Ton mini-split, which puts out 12,000 BTU max. In the winter, I only heat one room, which has an area of 180 sq. ft. Even though I keep it pretty toasty, because the size is so small, the cost of heating is quite low. The heated room only has R-13 insulation. I find that through most of the winter, there is enough heat leaking into other rooms that they are at least tolerable. When the thermometer takes a serious dive, it really makes a difference in my house, but the mini-split has been able to keep up even down to 12F. At 12F, it's COP drops to around 2 or less (that is an educated guess based on power readings of the mini-split). I heat water with a tankless (demand) natural gas water heater. I have some electric heaters that I use as required for tasks in the unheated rooms. The only heat the kitchen sees is from the gas stove. I have a wood stove in the basement. where my shop is. If I'm going to be there for an extended period, I build a fire. If I'm just there for a quick task, I might use an electric heater. I am considering a small cheap mini-split for the basement. Last winter, I tested out my homemade heat pump and GSHP loop field, by letting the heat pump run continuously , 24/7 for nearly two months. It did a fair job of keeping the uninsulated basement warm. It also pulled the temp of the loop field down from 52F to 38F during that time. I have replaced all incandescent lights with CFL lights. I am in the process of replacing certain CFLs with LED lights. I'll edit in my gas use, the bill should be here in a day or two. EDIT: (Just dug up my gas bill for Oct.) Oct Gas use = 4.1 Therm = 120.16 kWh = 3.88 kWh/day Combined Oct (elec + gas) = 9.8 kWh + 3.88 kWh Combined Oct (elec + gas) = 13.68 kWh/day If we're really going to do this, we should also convert our automobile fuel to kWh, and include that. My, my, my, won't that be a shocker! -AC_Hacker __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 11-08-11 at 12:48 PM..

11-05-11, 10:03 PM	#59
benpope Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 95 Thanks: 16 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Adding natural gas... Edited since I messed up the kWh -> Natural Gas conversion. Now includes gasoline at 9.7 kW·h/L or 36.6 kWh/US gal. Electric: 16.8 kWh/day (includes water heater) Gas: 15.69 kWh/day equivalent (heat = 13 and cooking = 1) House Total: 32.5 kWh/day Gasoline: About 36.6 kWh/day Grand total: 69.1 kWh/day for two people In the past week I've added the ohh so lovely dual flush conversion kit (thanks!), a water heater timer, and attic insulation to a difficult to access addition. I've set the timer to turn on the water heater for 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the evening. I think this is probably overkill - it may do better to turn on only once per day. Any suggestions? Last edited by benpope; 11-06-11 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: Miscalculated Therm to Kwh conversion

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11-03-11, 04:55 PM	#53
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	you should make a spreadsheet filling in the data as far back as you can find the info. That will give you the best idea of what is going on. A thread on mine is here, http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-tracking.html and a direct link to the spreadsheet is here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...thkey=CJC147YI If you have any questions/difficulties with it just let me know. It's an all electric house so it may not meet all of your needs. Doax has a similar excellent one here http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-tracking.html He has multiple fuels so it may be a better fit. When you start tracking this information to this level you can start to find patterns and make appropriate changes.

11-04-11, 05:08 AM	#58
The master plan Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Central MN Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	ELECTRIC WATER HEAT YTD Charges $515.03 $96.30 $301.00 Readings: Present: 5715 564 37543 Previous: 5233 561 37531 Consumption: OCT 482 300 120 SEP 517 300 AUG 667 200 JUL 396 200 JUN 362 200 260 MAY 397 200 1180 APR 600 200 2630 MAR 471 200 1910 FEB 498 200 530 JAN 451 200 210 DEC 421 200 220 NOV 409 300 110 Total: 5671 2700 7170 Average: 472 225 597 I ran out of firewood in March...That is the reason for the big jump in heat.