Hand wash vs dish washer - Page 4

Whitworthsocket · 12-08-12, 10:03 PM

I agree,
Twenty seven gallons of water is ridiculous.
the other thing that is not mentioned is how much energy was used to make the dish washer and the capital outlay that was used to buy the dishwasher.
Regards Whitworth

Exalta-STA · 12-09-12, 07:26 AM

I LOLed at this study...Looks like they should visit some countries in the world where the daily water ration is 5 gallons a day or less...they find very ingenious ways to conserve water

creeky · 12-17-12, 12:53 PM

I use the molecular version of dishwashing myself. I pour leftover relatively clean water on my dishes. And let soak. Often for days at a time to ensure that a minimum of soap and scrubbing is required.

AC_Hacker · 12-19-12, 02:48 PM

Good going creeky, let the thermal energy in the water do most of the work.

But I realized that dishwashers might be improved, even modified to allow for pre-soaked dishes with less water and shorter wash times.

Here's a post from someone who built an Arduino controller for his afflicted Maytag. With most of the work already figures out, tweaking and optimizing should be really an easy matter.

Best,

-AC

creeky · 12-19-12, 04:49 PM

just started playing with Arduino this spring. haven't really done much.

but this looks pretty nice.

Minimac · 01-06-13, 11:54 AM

I don't wash dishes...I use paper plates, then burn them in my woodburner! C'mon people, are you serious? Four pages of arguing which uses less water!!!!

AC_Hacker · 01-09-13, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimac

I don't wash dishes...I use paper plates, then burn them in my woodburner! C'mon people, are you serious? Four pages of arguing which uses less water!!!!

Right now there are 7,021,836,029 people on the planet and they usually eat at least once a day.

If you lived in a jungle in the tropics and could walk up to a banana plant and cut a banana leaf for a plate and then when you were done, toss it back into the jungle to re-enter the bio-cycle, then dish washing economy really would be a fool's errand.

But there is a chain of industrial events that ends up with the paper plate that is under your food.

This argument is actually about something larger. Ultimately it is about taking responsibility for that chain of events.

Best,

-AC

NeilBlanchard · 01-09-13, 09:28 AM

Right - a LOT of water is used to make paper. One estimate I found says ~1/2 gallon per plate. Plus petroleum based coatings, and the fact that you cannot recycle a used paper plate mean that using paper plates means you are using more water than either hand washing or machine washing reusable plates.

Minimac · 01-10-13, 07:39 AM

My initial post was tongue in cheek-apparently I didn't make that clear. However, am I the only one here that thinks it's silly to see four pages of debate on which uses more water? About responsibility of the 'chain of events '- how much water(and other resources) was wasted by the power generated used to respond to my post, and take me to task? How many electrons, oil, water, and who knows whatnot, were spent to point out, on your phone or computer, that my paper plates are not "eco-friendly"? Doesn't it seem ridiculous, when carried to that extreme?
I have learned an awful lot from people like AC Hacker, Solar Mike, Doax, Neil Blanchard, and many others, and am grateful for the posting and sharing various ideas and projects. I like the exchange of ideas and thoughts, good and bad, and various discussions. But let's not become so focused on the goal that we lose relevancy. I think that is why an awful large portion of the general populace paints all conservationists with a pretty broad brush- and not in a positive way.
Now I'll stop my rant and go back to lurking.......

Piwoslaw · 01-10-13, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimac

My initial post was tongue in cheek-apparently I didn't make that clear. However, am I the only one here that thinks it's silly to see four pages of debate on which uses more water? About responsibility of the 'chain of events '- how much water(and other resources) was wasted by the power generated used to respond to my post, and take me to task? How many electrons, oil, water, and who knows whatnot, were spent to point out, on your phone or computer, that my paper plates are not "eco-friendly"? Doesn't it seem ridiculous, when carried to that extreme?

I'll admit that I had a feeling that you were joking, hence why I refrained from answering. On the other hand, you don't have enough posts here for us to get to know your sense of humor.

Anyhow, I'm sure there are people whose view of the world around them could be summed up by your previous post, so if AC's and Neil's answers help someone understand how things really work, then they were worth the extra electrons.

12-19-12, 02:48 PM	#34
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts	Make Them Molecules Work, then Mod the Dishwasher! Good going creeky, let the thermal energy in the water do most of the work. But I realized that dishwashers might be improved, even modified to allow for pre-soaked dishes with less water and shorter wash times. Here's a post from someone who built an Arduino controller for his afflicted Maytag. With most of the work already figures out, tweaking and optimizing should be really an easy matter. Best, -AC Attached Thumbnails __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

01-10-13, 07:39 AM	#39
Minimac Lurking Renovator Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 29 Thanks: 7 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	My initial post was tongue in cheek-apparently I didn't make that clear. However, am I the only one here that thinks it's silly to see four pages of debate on which uses more water? About responsibility of the 'chain of events '- how much water(and other resources) was wasted by the power generated used to respond to my post, and take me to task? How many electrons, oil, water, and who knows whatnot, were spent to point out, on your phone or computer, that my paper plates are not "eco-friendly"? Doesn't it seem ridiculous, when carried to that extreme? I have learned an awful lot from people like AC Hacker, Solar Mike, Doax, Neil Blanchard, and many others, and am grateful for the posting and sharing various ideas and projects. I like the exchange of ideas and thoughts, good and bad, and various discussions. But let's not become so focused on the goal that we lose relevancy. I think that is why an awful large portion of the general populace paints all conservationists with a pretty broad brush- and not in a positive way. Now I'll stop my rant and go back to lurking....... Last edited by Minimac; 01-10-13 at 07:43 AM..

12-08-12, 10:03 PM	#31
Whitworthsocket Lurking Renovator Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Western Australia Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree, Twenty seven gallons of water is ridiculous. the other thing that is not mentioned is how much energy was used to make the dish washer and the capital outlay that was used to buy the dishwasher. Regards Whitworth

12-09-12, 07:26 AM	#32
Exalta-STA Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2012 Location: Philippines Posts: 107 Thanks: 12 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I LOLed at this study...Looks like they should visit some countries in the world where the daily water ration is 5 gallons a day or less...they find very ingenious ways to conserve water

12-17-12, 12:53 PM	#33
creeky Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: a field somewhere Posts: 304 Thanks: 64 Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts	I use the molecular version of dishwashing myself. I pour leftover relatively clean water on my dishes. And let soak. Often for days at a time to ensure that a minimum of soap and scrubbing is required.

12-19-12, 04:49 PM	#35
creeky Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: a field somewhere Posts: 304 Thanks: 64 Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts	just started playing with Arduino this spring. haven't really done much. but this looks pretty nice.

01-06-13, 11:54 AM	#36
Minimac Lurking Renovator Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 29 Thanks: 7 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I don't wash dishes...I use paper plates, then burn them in my woodburner! C'mon people, are you serious? Four pages of arguing which uses less water!!!!

01-09-13, 09:28 AM	#38
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Right - a LOT of water is used to make paper. One estimate I found says ~1/2 gallon per plate. Plus petroleum based coatings, and the fact that you cannot recycle a used paper plate mean that using paper plates means you are using more water than either hand washing or machine washing reusable plates.