Improving cooling efficiency? - Page 2

jeff5may · 07-17-20, 02:40 AM

Nokiasixteth,

Hey! How did the board repair go?

To answer your question, a 1 ton unit isn't that powerful. No matter what kind of improvement you try, you're not going to save much money. Assuming you are talking about an inverter unit like the repair discussion, there's even less efficiency to gain. Maybe at full speed, in turbo cool mode, you might save a few percent of energy.

nokiasixteth · 07-17-20, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff5may

Nokiasixteth,

Hey! How did the board repair go?

To answer your question, a 1 ton unit isn't that powerful. No matter what kind of improvement you try, you're not going to save much money. Assuming you are talking about an inverter unit like the repair discussion, there's even less efficiency to gain. Maybe at full speed, in turbo cool mode, you might save a few percent of energy.

Board repair didnt go to hot. The board had an angle . And solder dripped over another part of the board now i have to figure how to unsolder that part of the board also

. Ill figure it out i always do . Kinda like when i got my patent filed it was harder for me to do the patent than the actual design of the invention.

The 2 ton is the one that the grasshopper messed up the 1 ton is my backup 15 seer kozykool . Its like 6 or 7 years old.It still cools like a champ.
I mist on the coils when it gets super hot. I dont like to because of the well water i am on.

MN Renovator · 07-18-20, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nokiasixteth

Board repair didnt go to hot. The board had an angle . And solder dripped over another part of the board now i have to figure how to unsolder that part of the board also

..snip..

I find desoldering braids (also called a solder wick) to work well for soaking up solder, you put the copper braid between the solder and the soldering iron and it soaks up the solder.

..but If it dripped over onto another part and that part wasn't hot enough to solder to, it shouldn't have been able to make a strong solder joint. I imagine a small knock against the unwanted solder blob with the flat blade of a screwdriver or even picking it off with a fingernail often would knock it loose.

WyrTwister · 07-18-20, 01:56 AM

Or a solder sucker .

God bless
Wyr

Elcam84 · 07-20-20, 08:35 PM

The blanket around the compressor is there for sound deadening. If your unit didn't come with one you can purchase one and put it on. They make a tremendous improvement in the sound level.

As said earlier the compressor is cooled by the return vapor line from the evaporator. And yes black absorbs and dissipates heat faster than any other color but it doesn't make and appreciable difference.

As for water on the condenser coils. There has been testing done and it shows no improvement in efficiency. In some cases it causes it's own issues with the high side pressure dropping and then the liquid refrigerant isn't pushed as hard through the TXV so now the TXV has to open more and it gets into a cyclic problem.

One interesting study showed that light amounts of dirt on the condenser coils actually improves the efficiency due to the turbulence of the air flowing through.

jeff5may · 07-30-20, 03:26 PM

Ok so if you have a 20 seer, electronic expansion valve metered, temperature following fan control, prone to expensive eventual control board failure, super bowl ring having air conditioner, water mist or flooding of capacitors won't help you. For the trailer living in, 27 year old, cap tube having, twisty knob perpetually running, window shaking Joe dirt fools, different story.

Translation: if you just spent 3000 dollars on an air conditioner, you shouldn't need misting assistance.

rvCharlie · 06-10-25, 12:31 PM

A search for improving my a/c performance yielded this 5 year old thread, so I thought I'd try here before opening a new thread.
I'm located in central MS, the heat/humidity capital of Hades. My new (2nd cooling season) Trane 16 SEER 3 ton 'pro'-installed system is incapable of de-humidifying when outside air temps go above 90 degrees, and a bit of interweb sleuthing has revealed that yeah, R410 systems basically go on permanent break when the condenser is operating in >90* temps. Just not enough delta-t across the evap coil to dehumidify properly, unless fan speed is so low that the house won't cool. According to the 'pro' installer *and* the Trane tech assist guy, 60-65% indoor humidity is now ok. (Apparently they've issued a memo to all the mold and mildew critters, who have agreed to not grow until humidity reaches 70% now....)

Anyway, to the point of this post: I'm pondering a self-installed minisplit of maybe 1 ton capacity set at a degree or two below the existing 3 ton central system, so it will run all the time during summer to dehumidify without pumping heat back into the house like standard dehumidifiers. I'm wondering how much ground loop I'd need to 'assist' the R410 in getting a really effective delta-t across the coils. The soil in my location is well saturated with water. I hit water when I dig a 30" deep post hole. The on-line info I'm finding all seems to be geared toward cold climate using ground source for heating instead of cooling, and I suspect that most have much drier soil than I do.
Anyone have a rough idea on whether I'd really need 500 feet of pipe just to assist the air heat exchange of a cheap off the shelf unit?

u3b3rg33k · 06-10-25, 12:38 PM

if your goal is purely dehumidification, I would not add a literal ton of cooling, I would look to a dehumidification intended product - perhaps a whole-house dehumidifier (vs a standalone).

rvCharlie · 06-12-25, 08:45 AM

Sorry for delayed response; busy couple of days.

I'm keeping humidity down to the 50% range using a couple of larger portable dehumidifiers, but the constant hot air emitted by them makes me just 'feel' the power meter spinning faster. ;-)

I feel I made a bad investment with the new single speed system I had installed, so I'm looking at the DIY path to improve efficiency for not a lot of cash outlay. Many of the 1 or 2 ton minisplits are less expensive than a whole house dehumidifier, so my thought process is to have it running all the time, picking up a lot of the cooling load at the same time, instead of a big dehumidifier *adding* to the cooling load.

If I can keep the minisplit's evaporator coil down around 40-45 degrees (~25 degree air temperature delta-t) like an old R22 system, it should handle dehumidification in addition to being a more efficient cooling system, with the bigger single speed system only coming into action when cooling loads are most extreme.

u3b3rg33k · 06-13-25, 12:07 PM

a couple of questions i suppose:

does your air handler have any dehumidification features that you may not be using?

many new systems have terminals for slowing down the indoor blower, or for a dehumidification call. You'd need a thermostat that supports these features to use them.

I have an ancient (R22) AC and a new FCU, so I have it set up as a "two stage" cooling system, so stage one is on the low side of allowable airflow for a colder coil, then stage 2 is the opposite, to trade out latent for specific. it works well enough until it's in the upper 90s, and then it's just inadequately sized (I want to put in a mitsubishi inverter at some point.

I have a very cheap whole-house dehumidifier as well (currently out of order, it needs service) that I picked up a few years back used at a decent price.

there's nothing wrong with your plan per-se, but I would go out of my way to get a minisplit with a "dry" mode. otherwise, my experience is that minisplits often run warmer coils to minimize delta T and keep their COP up.

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07-17-20, 02:40 AM	#11
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,432 Thanks: 434 Thanked 620 Times in 518 Posts	Nokiasixteth, Hey! How did the board repair go? To answer your question, a 1 ton unit isn't that powerful. No matter what kind of improvement you try, you're not going to save much money. Assuming you are talking about an inverter unit like the repair discussion, there's even less efficiency to gain. Maybe at full speed, in turbo cool mode, you might save a few percent of energy.

07-18-20, 01:56 AM	#14
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	Or a solder sucker . God bless Wyr

07-20-20, 08:35 PM	#15
Elcam84 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: TX Posts: 275 Thanks: 2 Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts	The blanket around the compressor is there for sound deadening. If your unit didn't come with one you can purchase one and put it on. They make a tremendous improvement in the sound level. As said earlier the compressor is cooled by the return vapor line from the evaporator. And yes black absorbs and dissipates heat faster than any other color but it doesn't make and appreciable difference. As for water on the condenser coils. There has been testing done and it shows no improvement in efficiency. In some cases it causes it's own issues with the high side pressure dropping and then the liquid refrigerant isn't pushed as hard through the TXV so now the TXV has to open more and it gets into a cyclic problem. One interesting study showed that light amounts of dirt on the condenser coils actually improves the efficiency due to the turbulence of the air flowing through.

07-30-20, 03:26 PM	#16
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,432 Thanks: 434 Thanked 620 Times in 518 Posts	Ok so if you have a 20 seer, electronic expansion valve metered, temperature following fan control, prone to expensive eventual control board failure, super bowl ring having air conditioner, water mist or flooding of capacitors won't help you. For the trailer living in, 27 year old, cap tube having, twisty knob perpetually running, window shaking Joe dirt fools, different story. Translation: if you just spent 3000 dollars on an air conditioner, you shouldn't need misting assistance.

06-10-25, 12:31 PM	#17
rvCharlie Lurking Renovator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: central MS Posts: 28 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	A search for improving my a/c performance yielded this 5 year old thread, so I thought I'd try here before opening a new thread. I'm located in central MS, the heat/humidity capital of Hades. My new (2nd cooling season) Trane 16 SEER 3 ton 'pro'-installed system is incapable of de-humidifying when outside air temps go above 90 degrees, and a bit of interweb sleuthing has revealed that yeah, R410 systems basically go on permanent break when the condenser is operating in >90* temps. Just not enough delta-t across the evap coil to dehumidify properly, unless fan speed is so low that the house won't cool. According to the 'pro' installer and the Trane tech assist guy, 60-65% indoor humidity is now ok. (Apparently they've issued a memo to all the mold and mildew critters, who have agreed to not grow until humidity reaches 70% now....) Anyway, to the point of this post: I'm pondering a self-installed minisplit of maybe 1 ton capacity set at a degree or two below the existing 3 ton central system, so it will run all the time during summer to dehumidify without pumping heat back into the house like standard dehumidifiers. I'm wondering how much ground loop I'd need to 'assist' the R410 in getting a really effective delta-t across the coils. The soil in my location is well saturated with water. I hit water when I dig a 30" deep post hole. The on-line info I'm finding all seems to be geared toward cold climate using ground source for heating instead of cooling, and I suspect that most have much drier soil than I do. Anyone have a rough idea on whether I'd really need 500 feet of pipe just to assist the air heat exchange of a cheap off the shelf unit?

06-10-25, 12:38 PM	#18
u3b3rg33k Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Rustbelt, USA Posts: 116 Thanks: 6 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	if your goal is purely dehumidification, I would not add a literal ton of cooling, I would look to a dehumidification intended product - perhaps a whole-house dehumidifier (vs a standalone).

06-12-25, 08:45 AM	#19
rvCharlie Lurking Renovator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: central MS Posts: 28 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Sorry for delayed response; busy couple of days. I'm keeping humidity down to the 50% range using a couple of larger portable dehumidifiers, but the constant hot air emitted by them makes me just 'feel' the power meter spinning faster. ;-) I feel I made a bad investment with the new single speed system I had installed, so I'm looking at the DIY path to improve efficiency for not a lot of cash outlay. Many of the 1 or 2 ton minisplits are less expensive than a whole house dehumidifier, so my thought process is to have it running all the time, picking up a lot of the cooling load at the same time, instead of a big dehumidifier adding to the cooling load. If I can keep the minisplit's evaporator coil down around 40-45 degrees (~25 degree air temperature delta-t) like an old R22 system, it should handle dehumidification in addition to being a more efficient cooling system, with the bigger single speed system only coming into action when cooling loads are most extreme.

06-13-25, 12:07 PM	#20
u3b3rg33k Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Rustbelt, USA Posts: 116 Thanks: 6 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	a couple of questions i suppose: does your air handler have any dehumidification features that you may not be using? many new systems have terminals for slowing down the indoor blower, or for a dehumidification call. You'd need a thermostat that supports these features to use them. I have an ancient (R22) AC and a new FCU, so I have it set up as a "two stage" cooling system, so stage one is on the low side of allowable airflow for a colder coil, then stage 2 is the opposite, to trade out latent for specific. it works well enough until it's in the upper 90s, and then it's just inadequately sized (I want to put in a mitsubishi inverter at some point. I have a very cheap whole-house dehumidifier as well (currently out of order, it needs service) that I picked up a few years back used at a decent price. there's nothing wrong with your plan per-se, but I would go out of my way to get a minisplit with a "dry" mode. otherwise, my experience is that minisplits often run warmer coils to minimize delta T and keep their COP up.