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Old 02-14-10, 02:03 AM   #251
AC_Hacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spcander View Post
I was refering to the post about how you welded the plastic well pipe for the geothermal project.
OK, I think I have it now...

Your idea would work well for the alignment jig. I even considered such a device as you described, then I was able to reduce it to the angle iron jig you probably saw in the photo.

(I now have a small metal lathe and mill, so I'm able to make more sophisticated tools)

As far as heating the whole thing, HDPE is pretty rigid at non-elevated temperatures, but at the point where welding becomes possible (325 to 450 F) it all gets fairly mushy. That's why localized heating works well. The face of the HDPE pipe is heated to fusion temperature, and the rest of the pipe is still able to act as a support during the fusion process.

You should try out your idea, I think you'll see what I mean.

Thanks for the good words, I'll get this project going again...

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

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Old 04-16-10, 01:21 PM   #252
cncsystem
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Thumbs up automation idea for GSHP

Hi AC HAKER
great work on here very helpfull
i just learned a few dwys ago about heat pumps and i want to build one for my self.
one idea for controling the unit in short words is using thermo sensors with a pic 16f84 or samting from this family of micro procesors
le't say we ned for the basics 4 sensors two for ground loop in and out and two for the radiant floor loop (we can actualy use as many as we want but we keep things simple for the time
The sensors will be "LM35" for celsius and "LM34" for fahrenheit

www*national*com/mpf/LM/LM34*html#Overview]LM34 - Precision Fahrenheit Temperature Sensor
www*national*com/mpf/LM/LM34.html#Overview]LM34 - Precision Fahrenheit Temperature Sensor

about 5 years ago i plaied with micro controllers and i did learned a few things and i think it can be done
i did read back here somwere about a 1 wire sensor that has some code so it is dificult to use and expensive

the microcontroller has 2 ports of 8 pins each so 16 pins that can be set as imputs (for reading the sensors, buttons ) or outputs (for controling the relays , relays that can turn on or off compresors water pumps lights or any thing)
so the micro controller acts like this:
1. we tell it that pins: 1,2,3,4 are imputs
2. we tell it that pins: 5,6,7 are outputs
3. we tell it that when groung loop temp sensor is reaching 3*Celsius to turn on the output 1. that controls the relay 1. ON that it is conected to an buzer or alarm system to warn us for 5 sec (or any amount of time, or on 2 sec off 2 sec on 2 sec or any way we want)
4. we tell it that when the sensor of pin one reaches 6 * celsius to shoot OFF the alarm
5. we tell it that when the pin one sensor reaches 0*celsius to shoot OFF the output 2 that it is conected to relay 2. that controls the compresor(so it will turn Off the compresor
6.
7.
8.
and so on

we tell it = programing

and it works on the basics of :if that (in tis case sensors value reading)
then do that (turn on or off relays)

i'm not a very god englesh speaker writer
i leave in Romania where the temp in the winter plunges to -13 fahrenheit

i did not practice programing for five years but it is like riding a bike i only have to remember , and the number of ports/pins may not be acurate since i do not remember very well but the idea it is what it counts
i also heve the programing tools and software and the internet is ful of info and examples. I'm shore that somone else has don it before

en*wikipedia*org/wiki/PIC16x84]PIC16x84 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
www*
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Old 04-19-10, 02:21 AM   #253
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Default Do you know of Arduino?

Hello cncsystem,

Quote:
Originally Posted by cncsystem View Post
Hi AC HAKER
one idea for controling the unit in short words is using thermo sensors with a pic 16f84 or samting from this family of micro procesors
I think this is very interesting!

I understand that you have worked with PIC controllers in the past. Very good.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Arduino microprocessor development environment, but there is very much interest in this in many parts of the world.

I think that many people would become interested in the automation development, if we used the Arduino environment.

The URL for Arduino in English is here:

Arduino - HomePage


I'm sure it is available in Romanian also, but I don't know where.

Are you interested in working with Arduino?

I suspect many other people would join us, and share their knowledge and ideas.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker
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Old 04-21-10, 09:03 PM   #254
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Hello All,
I am trying to find some info on making ground sourced Geothermal heating using two 10000 litre underground water tanks. I am think of place piping coils inside the water tanks to heat water... any thoughts
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Old 04-29-10, 10:18 AM   #255
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Default GSHP using 2 underground tanks, each 10,000 liter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by otti View Post
Hello All,
I am trying to find some info on making ground sourced Geothermal heating using two 10000 litre underground water tanks. I am think of place piping coils inside the water tanks to heat water... any thoughts
Otti,


You need to supply more detailed information regarding what you are trying to do...
  1. Are you trying to heat water that is in two underground tanks using a Ground Source Heat Pump?
  2. Are you trying to use two underground tanks to extract heat from, using a Ground Source Heat Pump, in order to heat water in another tank?

I need to know more information, before I can comment on your question.

Best Regard,

-AC_Hacker
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Old 05-03-10, 05:28 AM   #256
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Hello AC_Hacker,
My objective is to have above slab hydronic heating system using a ground source heat pump. My heating area is approx. 100m2. I was think of putting two 10000 litre water tanks into the ground and making the tanks act as a heat source using the heat pump. I want to use the energy of the ground to heat the house! Do you think that is is possible to use the water tank, copper pipe either coiled inside or outside, as a ground source heat pump! I have been told that there could be a possibility that the water could freeze if too much heat is taken out! I hope this is clear! I dont want to use this to preheat the water but actually heat the house with..... Thanks
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Old 05-04-10, 09:45 AM   #257
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yes i'm intrested in worcking with arduino
and i.m going to develop a system on arduino basis
but only a litlt bite diferent
i hava a few atmel cips with 4 ports (i think "ats 8515" )
and the programing does not difer to much
i'm looking on ebay for the rest of components
it is going to be something simple with a display a few keys and the sensors etc
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Old 05-04-10, 05:28 PM   #258
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otti, water will hold more heat than soil, per equal volume, water is more heat conductive, and water will have convection currents. This will allow your heat pump to extract a given amount of heat from that volume more quickly than it could from soil. After a critical amount of heat has been extracted, however, the rate of extraction will be limited by the rate at which the volume can absorb heat from the surrounding soil.

The only advantage I see is if you have a need for lots of heat intermittently. I'd expect a radiant floor with high mass to have a fairly constant demand for heat, based on the rate at which floor is losing heat. Perhaps in a passive solar setup, where the slab is exposed to high amounts of sun during the day, and needs heat only at night.. then the water could absorb heat during the day and release it at night. But freezing of the water is a concern - it would need to be sized appropriately to meet the load, and you'd probably want a temperature sensor to prevent the heat pump from freezing the water under extreme loads.
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Old 05-05-10, 05:25 PM   #259
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Otti,

mrd is correct in his comments.

To really gain a correct understanding of your project, you need to start at the end and work forward...

What I mean is you need to know what the heat requirement of your house is. If the heat requirement of your house is very large, the heat will be removed from the tanks in the ground faster than the earth can replenish the tanks with heat. This is the condition that mrd is describing.

On the other hand, if the heating requirement of your house is very modest, the water in the tanks will never hit the critical freezing level, and heat from the earth will move into the tanks faster than you are taking it to heat your house, and you will be in the clear.

So, as has been said elsewhere in the Ecorenovator blog, insulation is very, very green.

I would suggest that you get a program that can calculate heating loads and input the size and characteristics of your house, and also the degree-days for the area you live in, and you will be able to begin your analysis.

I would suggest a program like "HVAC Calc". They have a free trial version that will give you the info you need.

I'll try and help you with the rest, when you get the heat load info.

If you already have the two 10,000 gallon tanks in the ground, then you are a lucky guy. However, if you need to bury those big guys, the energy required to do it would likely be better spent digging trenches and burying High Density Polyethylene pipe.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker
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Old 05-26-10, 01:48 PM   #260
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Hello AC_Hacker-

I find your DIY ground source project very interesting. You've put a lot of effort into it. Is it complete? Are you happy with the performance results?

I'd love to hear where this project stands and if completed, how the system is performing.

Regards,
Phleas

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