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Old 05-20-12, 01:19 PM   #1
rhino 660
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Default 32 seer thermal ac unit

not much info but seems like we should hack it braze in a de superheater and run super hot water thru it.
http://www.sednaaireusa.com/Products/SolarCool.aspx

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Old 05-20-12, 02:47 PM   #2
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How does the super heated water help run the a/c more efficiently?
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Old 05-20-12, 06:17 PM   #3
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it has something to do with super heating the gas so the delta t is greater
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Old 05-21-12, 10:01 AM   #4
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Sedna shows specs for various condensing units, but one of them is the same one I just got at surpluscityliquidators.com. It's an FS4BI***** , running R410a and made by Nordyne and sold under Tappan, Maytag, Broan, Westinghouse & others (including privatelabeling for Sedna!) By itself it's a 22 SEER inverter drive variable speed communicating system that can throttle down to 40% of capacity or up to 118% of capacity. Apparently Sedna is piping the compressor discharge directly through a 20 tube evacuated tube collector that can handle 1000psi manifold pressure. I'm curious to see how this process, combined with a desuperheater, actually improves efficiency. If I learn more, I'll post!

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Old 05-23-12, 08:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobile Master Tech View Post
Apparently Sedna is piping the compressor discharge directly through a 20 tube evacuated tube collector that can handle 1000psi manifold pressure. I'm curious to see how this process, combined with a desuperheater, actually improves efficiency. If I learn more, I'll post!

Craig
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Seems like this should decrease the efficiency if anything by adding heat to the refrigerant. I'd like to see the science behind the Sedna system.

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Old 05-27-12, 07:15 PM   #6
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I am sure that other hackers will chime in soon about this. Sedna Aire explains how it works, but I haven't been able to wrap my head around it either.

Here is what they said:

By "Super Heating" the refrigerant with the aid of the Solar Collector, we are able to increase the temperature difference between the condenser coil and the ambient temperature. By creating this difference, Sedna Aire is able to utilize the entire coil face at the condenser which allows for a better heat exchange throughout the entire system.


With a greater heat exchange, Sedna Aire is able to not only reduce the temperature in the conditioned space but also maintain better humidity control which makes the space more comfortable at a higher temperature…in addition your air conditioning unit doesn’t run as long and cycles less.


With the combination of the solar heat and changing the thermodynamic process of the refrigerant, Sedna Aire is able to reduce the required work of the compression operation of the compressor. This then lowers the required electrical consumption, reduces the running time of the entire system and maintains a more comfortable conditioned space.
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Old 05-29-12, 01:38 AM   #7
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Sounds like a whole lot of hot air to me. Yea you may be increasing the delta T of the condensing coil to air, and yes it may cause it to use the whole coil face(any commercially available A/C is going to do this anyway), but it's going to use it to dissipate the extra added heat from the refrigerant. The only was I can see this improving efficiency is if it was able to raise the pressure of the refrigerant without raising the temperature much, in which case maybe there'd be a benefit due to the increased pressure drop at a metering device.

Adam
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Old 06-07-12, 03:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by launboy View Post
Sounds like a whole lot of hot air to me. Yea you may be increasing the delta T of the condensing coil to air, and yes it may cause it to use the whole coil face(any commercially available A/C is going to do this anyway), but it's going to use it to dissipate the extra added heat from the refrigerant. The only was I can see this improving efficiency is if it was able to raise the pressure of the refrigerant without raising the temperature much, in which case maybe there'd be a benefit due to the increased pressure drop at a metering device.

Adam
The problem with PT chart is it only works when refrigerant is saturated. When refrigerant is superheated or subcooled the correlation pressure/temperature doesn't work any more.

So, by overheating (superheting) gaseous refrigerant you don't increase it's pressure. It's pressure is determined by liquid refrigerant (saturated) only.

All their explanation sounds like BS to me. Or they just don't want to share their "secret".

The only thing I am thinking is most refrigerants have their critical point. At this point refrigerants behave completely different. They might found some useful use of this ?????

Last edited by Vlad; 06-07-12 at 03:50 AM..
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Old 06-07-12, 08:04 PM   #9
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when me and my boss get a chance we plan on going to there factory and ill let you know what i find
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Old 06-08-12, 08:07 AM   #10
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I have a theory. Since you are going to the factory, you can test it for me.

They state they use two stage compression. If they superheated some of the refrigerant between the stages, and then injected the superheated refrigerant back into the stream using a Venturi it might be entirely possible to use the bernoulli effect to speed up the refrigerant flow, reducing the required compression ratio of the second stage.

I've been racking my brain trying to figure this out, and that's the best I can come up with.

(edit) a quick google search. Shows loads of prior art and patents on solar refrigeration using a Venturi, so I'm probably not that far off.


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