DIY well drilling / trench digging for GSHP

[AlanE]

Originally Posted by Vlad

AlanE sorry I missed the point. Are you going to use open loop or closed loop system. This is very critical?

Closed loop.

On a side note, please keep posting about your experiences. I'm finding the grout adventure interesting reading.

I'm wondering if your problems are stemming from the small diameter of your grout hose - small diameter means increased friction from the interior surface in relation to the volume of the hose. The friction of the hose wall will transfer into the flowing liquid and slow its rate of travel while the liquid in the center of the hose doesn't have to deal with the friction. A larger hose would have a larger cross sectional area in the center of the hose in relation to the part which deals with the friction on the wall.

I get that you're limited by the 4" width of your well and the pipes within the well, but the lesson for me is that I should probably ream out the well hole to 6" thus giving me more room for larger grout piping.

[Geo NR Gee]

So Vlad, if you rented a commericial unit that pushes hundreds of lbs of pressure instead of 120psi, how much deeper with the grout could you go? I need to go 200ft. I am south of you in Seattle.

Geo

[Vlad]

I found the answer to pumping stubborn grout:

Concrete countertops: How cement particles are like socks. - YouTube

Concrete countertops: Using superplasticizer to increase workability without decreasing strength - YouTube

Superplasticizers: the wonder of fluid concrete - YouTube

http://fritzpak.com/pdfs/pb115_supercizer7.pdf

This can be very handy for many DIY projects. Now concrete jobs look to me more attractive.

It is not expensive, which is good. 2.5 lb bag costs 20 CAD. It is enough for 1 cubic meter of concrete.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Geo NR Gee

So Vlad, if you rented a commericial unit that pushes hundreds of lbs of pressure instead of 120psi, how much deeper with the grout could you go? I need to go 200ft. I am south of you in Seattle.

Geo

You just answered your question the more pressure the dipper you can go. With commercial unit 200 ft is nothing from grouting point.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by AlanE

Closed loop.

On a side note, please keep posting about your experiences. I'm finding the grout adventure interesting reading.

I'm wondering if your problems are stemming from the small diameter of your grout hose - small diameter means increased friction from the interior surface in relation to the volume of the hose. The friction of the hose wall will transfer into the flowing liquid and slow its rate of travel while the liquid in the center of the hose doesn't have to deal with the friction. A larger hose would have a larger cross sectional area in the center of the hose in relation to the part which deals with the friction on the wall.

I get that you're limited by the 4" width of your well and the pipes within the well, but the lesson for me is that I should probably ream out the well hole to 6" thus giving me more room for larger grout piping.

It all makes sense. But if I drill 6" hole it means I need 6" step bit and 6" tricone $$+$$ (I don't want to get stuck if I hit rock). Also I might need more torque. And the most important tricones need thousands of pounds of pressure to drill through rock. The bigger diameter the more weight you need.

Do not underestimate grouting dilemma. You are focusing on drilling like I was, but grouting is even bigger problem.

Now looking at my straggles you have a chance to build right machine. And this is the whole idea to share experience.

[Vlad]

Some changes and progress...

I have made many changes to drilling rig and a whole set up while waiting for a good weather. They are:

1. I switched to gas engines for main hydraulic unit and for water (mud) pump.

2. I converted gas engines to run on propane (cost about 80$ per engine for regulators and hoses)

There are many reasons to run on propane:
a. safer to operate (less fumes to inhale)
b. no maintenance for carburetor
c. 73c/L VS 1.40$/L is a big difference....

3. I bought large diaphragm pump to pump grout. It is 1.5" Wilden pump. Air operated.

4. I shortened the drill pipe length from 10' link to 5' link. It allowed me to lower the rig by 5'. It was very hard to deal with 16' high rig for one man operation.

The progress:

1. I decided to drill no dipper than 55' because of gravel layer. now I need 12 holes x 55' each

2. I drilled 1 hole 55' deep on first day. The next day I switched to drag bit (from trycone) and drilling became a song. It drills very fast and I don't need to push down. Drill pipe sinks under it's own weight. I actually needed to slow it down for water pump to keep up. You have to make sure you get all cutting out of the hole.
The second day I drilled 2 holes (I can drill 4 holes in one whole day).

3. I decided to try to grout 3 holes first before moving on. Grouting was a killer of my first project. This time I was more prepared. I decided to pump water/mud out from holes to help grout pump to pump downhill . This was a very good idea. It definitely helped pumping grout. Without water I could feel the grout level in the hole, so I could pull out grout hose just enough.

After many hours of wrestling with grout, mud, water, pumps, hoses and rain I finally can say: "I CAN DO IT".

Now I have 3 holes with pipes sticking out from grout waiting for another weather gift. Raining again for a week. No way I will start drilling and especially grouting without GOOD WEATHER.

[Geo NR Gee]

Vlad,
You mentioned that you switched to the shorter 5' sections of pipe. Did you cut the 10' pipes and re-thread them? What material is the pipe?

The reason I am asking is that we need more pipe ourselves to go deeper. My HDPE pipe is 210 feet with a U-Bend fused in already.

[Geo NR Gee]

Vlad,
Great work by the way! Do you have a picture of the drag bit? Thanks for the useful information also. What you write about makes it sound easy, but I know first hand, its not easy.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Some changes and progress... No way I will start drilling and especially grouting without GOOD WEATHER.

Great going Vlad!

Since you're going to have to wait a few days, how about a bunch of photos of your new rig?

Also, I'm getting pretty close to starting on my radiant floor, if you have any information on your radiant floor install, I'd sure like to know about it before I start buying supplies.

-AC

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Geo NR Gee

Vlad,
You mentioned that you switched to the shorter 5' sections of pipe. Did you cut the 10' pipes and re-thread them? What material is the pipe?

The reason I am asking is that we need more pipe ourselves to go deeper. My HDPE pipe is 210 feet with a U-Bend fused in already.

Yes, I just cut 10' in the middle and re threaded the ends. I used 2" sch 40 black steel water pipe and hydraulic couplings (very thick wall made of steel and not cast iron 3000 psi rated)