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Old 04-22-22, 05:37 AM   #1
ZorBoz
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Default Yet another A2W conversion of split AC

Hi to all.
I am trying to make A2W conversion of split AC from Toshiba RAV-SM563AT-E outdoor unit. Its power is around 18000 Btu's or 5,3-6kW.
I live in low energy consumption house that uses around 10000 kWh of energy for year round heating cooking and hot water, and it uses condensing gas boiler with support of one solar panel for DHW.
My boiler is Aurocompact from Vaillant. It has 150l tank for DHW. My problem is that system can't really cope with low power since boiler modulates its power from 19kW to around 4 kW. So i would use A2W system for purpose of supplementing my heating when its not so cold and COP should be high.
Its around 5 degrees Celsius and below where i would kick in the gas boiler.
My questions are:
1. Do I need any kind of buffer in water system, or I can drive my house directly from BPHE. My system is compromised of oversized radiators, and supplemental underfloor heating in one circuit. (RTL valves for underfloor)
2. What would be the size of BPHE for my AC and where to source it (Aliexpress or something else.) I assume that flare connectors on gas side would be a good thing since AC has 1/2 and 1/4 inch connector.
3. Does anybody knows a good pump for this applications. I was thinking of Willo Yonos Pico or something that has variable speed to play with best heat trasnfer from BPHE.

Ty all for any kind of information.

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Old 04-23-22, 05:09 PM   #2
Robl
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Hi, great project!

From your description, I understand your gas boiler has an internal pump - hence you need another for the heatpump. You intend to convert the A2A unit to a split A2W unit I think, with presumably a freon-water BPHE indoors on your heating circuit?

Perhaps you could measure your present system, in order to understand the performance expected? Turn all TRVs(Temperature Regulation Valves) to full, boiler to full, pump to full. What we need is the steady state flow and return temperatures, and also the gas power used - these will indicate how effective the radiators are at dissipating heat into your house. Your boiler modulates down though, so this is only useful if you can tell the power.

Best performance is likely to be had with a large area (many plate) BPHE. If there are many TRVs or other thermostats that can restrict the heatloss(bad), then a 2 pipe buffer is useful in preventing short cycling, but if your system is simple I wouldnít bother with a buffer.

The bphe is likely to have a thermal transfer of around 2000W/degC/m^2. So for example a 40 plate 70mm*180mm unit would have about 0.5m^2 surface area, and at 5kW have a 5degC temperature drop across it. Bigger is of course always better, but around that size is what I would get. I bought some units a bit like that from aliexpress. Nb: Get one that has a high enough working pressure, many are lower pressure than the A/C gas operating pressure.
As this is going into an existing system, I would add a magnetic filter if you havenít one before the bphe, to keep radiator rust out of your bphe.

As to the pump; more power will always give better heat transfer, eventually the COP will reduce if the pump power is also considered. Itís usual for internal circulator pumps to be 30-60W or so, and the better electronic ones are generally speed controllable like the one you suggested. My 2.5kW gshp uses 40W(wilo pico) on the external pump, 20W(grundfos alpha2) on the internal. It would be a little more efficient to run the internal pump faster, but I like it silent.

That toshiba unit uses R410a gas, with a gwp of 2000. How do you deal with the gas in it now- it shoudnít be vented, but carefully captured etc.

Good luck!
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Old 04-26-22, 04:47 AM   #3
ZorBoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robl View Post
Hi, great project!

From your description, I understand your gas boiler has an internal pump - hence you need another for the heatpump. You intend to convert the A2A unit to a split A2W unit I think, with presumably a freon-water BPHE indoors on your heating circuit?

Perhaps you could measure your present system, in order to understand the performance expected? Turn all TRVs(Temperature Regulation Valves) to full, boiler to full, pump to full. What we need is the steady state flow and return temperatures, and also the gas power used - these will indicate how effective the radiators are at dissipating heat into your house. Your boiler modulates down though, so this is only useful if you can tell the power.

Best performance is likely to be had with a large area (many plate) BPHE. If there are many TRVs or other thermostats that can restrict the heatloss(bad), then a 2 pipe buffer is useful in preventing short cycling, but if your system is simple I wouldnít bother with a buffer.

The bphe is likely to have a thermal transfer of around 2000W/degC/m^2. So for example a 40 plate 70mm*180mm unit would have about 0.5m^2 surface area, and at 5kW have a 5degC temperature drop across it. Bigger is of course always better, but around that size is what I would get. I bought some units a bit like that from aliexpress. Nb: Get one that has a high enough working pressure, many are lower pressure than the A/C gas operating pressure.
As this is going into an existing system, I would add a magnetic filter if you havenít one before the bphe, to keep radiator rust out of your bphe.

As to the pump; more power will always give better heat transfer, eventually the COP will reduce if the pump power is also considered. Itís usual for internal circulator pumps to be 30-60W or so, and the better electronic ones are generally speed controllable like the one you suggested. My 2.5kW gshp uses 40W(wilo pico) on the external pump, 20W(grundfos alpha2) on the internal. It would be a little more efficient to run the internal pump faster, but I like it silent.

That toshiba unit uses R410a gas, with a gwp of 2000. How do you deal with the gas in it now- it shoudnít be vented, but carefully captured etc.

Good luck!
Thanks for all the info. Gas was drawn into outside unit before demounting it. My system is really hard to gauge, bcause it has pwm pump, modulating boiler and house has really good insulation. For example I need around 39 deg C sent to radiators when outside temp is around 0 Deg C. I limited my boiler to 10kW and its still to powerfull for most of the time. So I think I could go around 2/3 of winter on this heat pump easily with good COP.
Again thanks for the info.

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