EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Geothermal & Heat Pumps
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-14, 10:28 AM   #41
randen
Uber EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada
Posts: 657
Thanks: 9
Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Mike

45 % silver solder. Already switched. Dam work breaking my concentration!!!!

Randen

randen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-14, 07:34 PM   #42
randen
Uber EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada
Posts: 657
Thanks: 9
Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts
Default 5 Ton GSHP Build

The refrigeration circuits have been corrected. Everything is silver-soldered and brazed. The vacuum pump is employed and the system is holding the vacuum.

This new version of heat-pump may strongly resemble a previously constructed machine. I can only hope I didn't infringe on any licenced methods. The resemblance wasn't entirely deliberate.

Next will be the water circuits. Hopefully my luck will hold and it will be leak free.


Randen
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SAM_2830.jpg
Views:	874
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	4257   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAM_2831.jpg
Views:	862
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	4258   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAM_2832.jpg
Views:	895
Size:	51.0 KB
ID:	4259   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAM_2833.jpg
Views:	2083
Size:	70.3 KB
ID:	4260   Click image for larger version

Name:	SAM_2834.jpg
Views:	967
Size:	62.3 KB
ID:	4261  

randen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-14, 08:56 PM   #43
NiHaoMike
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
NiHaoMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,154
Thanks: 14
Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts
Default

It it hard to tell from 2D photographs, but if there are points where the copper tubing touches or gets close to another pipe or other hard objects, put a little foam rubber or something (maybe even a few layers of duct tape) in between to prevent them from rubbing through.

Also, pull vacuum from both sides. That's the proper way to do it. Then put in a holding charge (a few PSI of nitrogen, up to 150 PSI or so if you're doing a pressure test) until you're ready to finish the triple vacuum and tune it. You can also finish the triple vacuum outright and then put in 50 PSI of refrigerant for a holding charge, then add more when you're ready to tune it.
__________________
To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

Last edited by NiHaoMike; 04-13-14 at 09:00 PM..
NiHaoMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 12:25 AM   #44
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randen View Post
...Everything is silver-soldered and brazed. The vacuum pump is employed and the system is holding the vacuum...
Really a great looking job.

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 06:48 AM   #45
randen
Uber EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada
Posts: 657
Thanks: 9
Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Nihaomike

Don't worry spent some time bending tube. There are no areas were the tube comes close to touching. It won't be difficult to wrap the tubes with rubber insulation tubes.

I want to get it in soon so I can get a feel for its performance while some nights still get cool.
Looking real forward to kick butt air-conditioning in the shop this summer.

Randen
randen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 08:55 AM   #46
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randen View Post
I want to get it in soon so I can get a feel for its performance while some nights still get cool. Looking real forward to kick butt air-conditioning in the shop this summer.
Randen,

I have forgotten what your air conditioning output is like.

Last I remember, you were running chilled water through a converted gas-heater core.

If I recall correctly, you were successful in getting a cooling effect, but there was a problem with increased relative humidity.



Maybe Mike can use his advanced refrigeration knowledge along with this Mollier chart for R290 to design a de-subcooler for your system, so as to reduce the humidity therein.

-AC
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mollier_R290.jpg
Views:	7635
Size:	139.6 KB
ID:	4263  
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 04-14-14 at 09:35 AM..
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 09:27 AM   #47
randen
Uber EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada
Posts: 657
Thanks: 9
Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts
Default

AC-Hacker

The cooling load would be about 3 ton the old 2 ton air to air couldn't keep up with the machines running.

The air handler I had rescued from the scrap dealer was a refrigerant slant coil with an additional hot water exchanger. I had converted the slant coil to water by removing the cap-tube and installing a water manifold. So there is actually 2 heat exchangers (water to air)in the handler.

Before the hacked heat-pump was made the ground loop was installed. I had tried an experiment, to pump the ground loop water (12 Deg.C) through the air handler, to air condition the shop. Although condensation poured from the coils and the temp did drop it wasn't enough. The result was shop air temp of 26 deg. C and almost 100% rel. humidity.

I understand now one would require coil temps much lower to wring out as much moisture as possible.

5 tons of cooling should do-it. With the glycol I should be able to get near zero coolant through the coils. I'll keep the renovators posted.

Mike and I are in-contact for this and other projects of interest.

Randen
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF9494.jpg
Views:	728
Size:	261.8 KB
ID:	4262  

Last edited by randen; 04-14-14 at 09:30 AM..
randen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 06:07 PM   #48
jeff5may
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA
Posts: 2,428
Thanks: 431
Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to jeff5may
Default

Here's an idea: you could pre-cool the air as before, using the 12 degC loop water before it went into your condenser hx. This would extract lots of moisture at uber-high COP. Directly downwind, the colder evap loop water hx would drop the air temp even better due to the reduced latent load. A double whammy.

You have built a 20,000 dollar industrial chiller. Now all it needs is a stainless steel rack mount enclosure around it and some big, ugly gauges. The bigger and uglier, the higher you could make the thing worth. Super sanitary.

Last edited by jeff5may; 04-14-14 at 06:10 PM..
jeff5may is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 06:59 PM   #49
stevehull
Steve Hull
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: hilly, tree covered Arcadia, OK USA
Posts: 826
Thanks: 241
Thanked 165 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Jeff,

I have been thinking of doing this with my open loop GT heat pumps (precooling return air with water) for summer AC

My well water temp is about 60F and I can get a real cheap evaporator (that doesn't leak) to put before existing GT heat pump air coil.

When the unit is on, it uses ~ 5 gallons per minute (~ 40 L/min). Easy to plumb the water exiting this precooler to then go to the GT heat pump input. I bet the water temp is now a few degrees higher, which means a lowering of the EER.

Clearly, I am not going to get any latent water removal, but it should pre-cool the return air. Return air is about 80 F or so.

Do you think the time/trouble is worth it? Or am I trading just one efficiency for another . . . .?

Thanks . . .

Steve
__________________
consulting on geothermal heating/cooling & rational energy use since 1990
stevehull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-14, 08:32 PM   #50
randen
Uber EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada
Posts: 657
Thanks: 9
Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Jeff, Steve

I have heard of an installation were the contractor made up a pre-cooler using ground loop cooling. The installation was an expansive Geo-thermal in-door pool heating and air conditioning/heating system. During the summer months with all the glass some air-conditioning of the envelope .was needed. The installer installed a air handler that first ran the cool ground loop water through to help drop out the moisture. Then condition after that.

I don't have any information as per the economy of the system. But it had been done and wrung out a lot of condensate.

Randen

randen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design