Why buy a hybrid or EV?

[Xringer]

States look to tax hybrid and electric car owners to recoup road funding | Fox News

States look to tax hybrid and electric car owners to recoup road funding

Is this one of those tax-the-rich ideas? Just to make sure everyone
is on a "level playing field", tax wise?

Saving the planet are you? Well, it seems no good deed goes un-taxed..

[Ryland]

In Wisconsin fuel tax has not gone up in about 10 years, while inflation keeps going up, in otherwords the fuel tax keeps dropping!
Personally I think the fuel tax should go up to encourage more conservation.
Last year I paid about $60 in state fuel tax on my 20 year old gasoline car... so a $100 per year fee for road use for my electric car just seems unreasonable.

[Xringer]

I wonder why so many people were up in arms about paying by the mile?
That would really work well for me.. I put more miles on my bike some summers..

[jeff5may]

Ok, so let me get this straight. While the DOT and EPA are mandating fuel economy improvements and weight reductions (and driving major improvements), the state governments are raising fuel taxes due to the revenue lost? Only in America.

Remember what Ronnie and Nancy said? Just say no. The increase in fuel prices over the last decade has only hurt the small guys. Medium and large businesses have integrated fuel/transpo costs into their business plans, much like banks use the prime or LIBOR rates. Any new taxes would be passed vertically down to you and I. Same thing goes with mileage taxes, only we would likely pay at license tag registration or renewal in one big lump sum, plus pay extra every day in increased prices of goods.

The major selling point in paying up to 50% more for an electric car is no gas station visits. Plug-in hybrids boast the same basic benefit. Passing a mileage-hybrid-electric based tax would not close that gap with gas prices approaching $4 per gallon. It would be a meager amount of revenue for state road taxes, sounds like a foot in the door that is my wallet.

I know that America's infrastructure is in shambles. Some of this was supposed to be rectified by the (jobless) Recovery Act this past recession. In my neck of the woods, there are numerous road improvement projects being completed this very summer. So the money is around somewhere in the (big bloated) government and has already been allocated to see these projects to completion. Taxes have already been raised at the Federal level to begin to pay these and other projects back. So when does it end.....?

[Xringer]

"So when does it end.....?"
LOL! I remember when DEC turned into a (big bloated) bureaucracy back in the 1980s.
Different departments tried to grow faster and larger than the others.
They started to compete against each other. Like independent Fiefdoms.
It became difficult to get projects organized. Hardware guys couldn't get
the software "gods" to write code for basic products.
The "gods" were too busy building up their little kingdoms.
I guess DEC employees enjoyed their time in the sun..

Some people think DEC died because of bad 'timing' and missed windows of opportunity.

DEC's Final Demise - Forbes.com

I think the reason for their failure was all those little kingdoms within..
It turned DEC into a blundering, very confused many headed monster and Darwin took it's toll.

In the end, No money= No more little kingdoms

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by jeff5may

Ok, so let me get this straight. While the DOT and EPA are mandating fuel economy improvements and weight reductions (and driving major improvements), the state governments are raising fuel taxes due to the revenue lost? Only in America.

No, they are still lowering the fuel taxes, fuel taxes in most states have gone down over the last 10 years because the taxes is a set amount per gallon of fuel and inflation has gone up.

I don't have any issue with paying $60 or even $100 per year to use any public road I want, that is really cheap! $100 to not have bridges fall apart while I'm driving on them? $100 per year to have snow cleared and pot holes filled? I can't do that my self.

But people are sensitive to perception, so a flat out $100 per year check that you have to write out is going to discourage more people from using better forms of transportation then a penny per mile road tax.

Thing is, the fuel tax goes up when you use more fuel, drive lightly or with less of a load and you pay less, a per mile tax would only be fair if it was based off of vehicle weight and driving style, but then again if you taxed people based of max loaded vehicle weight you'd get more people to drive smaller vehicles.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Xringer

Is this one of those tax-the-rich ideas? Just to make sure everyone is on a "level playing field", tax wise?

I think the only sensible option is to make every street and road a toll road, or toll street, all privately run, and unregulated, priced at what the market will bear. That would put a quick stop to this slippery socialist slope.

Strictly pay as you drive.

Want to drive to the market for a six-pack of beer? Pay the toll. Can't pay? Can't go.

Your mother had a stroke, and you need to drive to an emergency room because you can't afford an ambulance? Pay the toll. Can't pay? Can't go.

Mother dies because medical aid was not available and you need to take the body to the crematorium (burial out of the question)... Pay the toll. Can't pay? Can't go.

Getting kids to school? Toll roads! All privately run, and unregulated. Can't pay? Can't go.

All schools private and unregulated, priced at what the market will bear. Can't pay? Can't go.

Down to you last dollars and need to go to a job interview? Can't pay the tolls or privatized passenger service? Can't go.

We're already well on our way to returning to the lifestyles of the 1800's... this will hurry it up.

Less for us, more for the elites.

* * *

By the way, I saw a very interesting series of four documentaries from Al Jazeera on China, called China Rising... available free on podcast.

Things are very much more affluent and modern there than I had realized... I think we are being left in the dust.

-AC

[jeff5may]

My issue is not that roads need to be repaired. My issue is that the state and federal governments already have taxes and fees in place to pay for these things. The government as a whole is grossly ineffective at driving progress and managing finances. Like Xringer said, it has become a blundering, multi-headed monster with kingdoms in every county, full of incometence. They just need to figure out how to budget their money more efficiently. If my roof caved in tomorrow, I wouldn't be able to just go out and bum money to fix it, and neither should they.

If new taxes are invented, they will just go up over time. Either way we will pay, through increased transportation charges on either method. Gross mileage is dominated by passengers on artery roads, while gross fuel consumption is dominated by commercial drivers on interstate highways.

In the very long term, gasoline and diesel fuel use will dwindle as market prices increase, and more drivers will be switching to "alternative" fuels. When will the government then redefine "primary" fuels to be more than just gas and diesel?

[Xringer]

I just don't want state politicians using class warfare to hinder the spread of EVs & Hybrids.
We know there is a start-up period when most people can't afford the new hi-MPG cars,
but more sales in the beginning, speeds the leap to mass production and lower cost.

Anything that's going to cut EV sales, like dumb state laws made to protect car dealerships or extra taxes, is counterproductive to getting off the oil addiction.

Will special hybrid car taxes slow down the sale of hybrids?
Will people buying a hybrid be wondering if next year's rate will go up?

If someone told me that driving a Prius C in 2014 was going to cost almost the same
as driving a 24 MPG 2.5L Ford Escape, what would I chose?

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by Xringer

If someone told me that driving a Prius C in 2014 was going to cost almost the same
as driving a 24 MPG 2.5L Ford Escape, what would I chose?

The revenue that is generated by taxes like this is not huge and many of the people who are pushing for it are most likely the same people who said that EV's are going to fail, but if you can make something harder or less appealing then why not do it if you want to protect your market? that is why we don't have small imported cars any more, not because they were unsafe, but because they were cutting in on a market so they were billed as unsafe and rules that pushed them off the road were written, because that is what the people with money wanted from the government that they bought and paid for.

When you look at where money is wasted by the government there are some huge areas, public infrastructure is a very small part of that.