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Old 12-18-13, 04:35 PM   #411
AC_Hacker
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Default Something new in radiant heating & cooling...

I just stumbled across this item:


It's called a capillary tube mat and it's embedded in walls, floors, and ceilings for radiant heating and cooling.

Looks pretty much like the solar swimming pool heaters I see on Craigslist.

Very close tube spacing... very low profile.

Hmmmm........

-AC

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Old 12-18-13, 06:15 PM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
In the southern US, usually square footage is more expensive, typically homes don't have basements(which is where we normally put ducts and furnaces in the North), and people down there building houses don't think the public wants an air handler or furnace in a closet near the kitchen(noisy near the bedrooms or living rooms). There's more to it than that but if I had to move to the South for some reason and bought a house with ductwork in the attic, I'd seal up the attic, insulate the attic, and seal all the ductwork(so the air inside the ducts can't touch the air in the house). I'd likely remove it rather than just close it off though because insulating and sealing the attic would be easier. In the southern US I'd want the most cooling efficiency I can get and the winter isn't that cold so both of these coins add up to a mini-split setup. ..just don't forget to deal with solar gains through windows. I'd still do R60 in the attic, even down there, that way I don't have to care how hot the attic is.
I've never understood this either. Our house had two heat pumps, 2 ton each. The main floor system had the air handler and all ducts in the attic. It blew 120F air for a minute at the beginning of each cycle. The condensate pan was primordial soup. Virtually all of them I've looked at eventually plugged up and overflowed condensate into the ceiling.

I replaced both units with window shakers during the remodel. The summer electric bill dropped by half so I never got around to installing a new heat pump.

Another odd thing is the regional preference for black asphalt shingles. I put a light colored metal roof over mine with a convective air gap. Also cut a 4 inch wide opening along the ridge, screened it, and covered with a ventilating cap. My summer attic temperatures dropped 30 to 40 degrees. A sealed attic is definitely a bad idea here. 150F is normal in a Georgia attic.

The new (single) air handler is going in the basement. All but two ducts are out of the attic. Those are heavily insulated and I may still block them off if the system performs as expected.

I am installing hydronic for primary heat to take advantage of the lower delta T. The air handler will be primarily for air purification in the winter.

I now have 38 windows in my house (about 15 before the remodel). The summer heat gain with premium windows isn't that bad.
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Old 12-21-13, 12:24 PM   #413
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I am trying to buy XPS foam to place under the slab. Dow recommends Foamular 250 for residential applications. I'm having trouble locating a supplier. Home Depot is supposed to be an authorized supplier but my local store doesn't know it exists.

We don't have Menards down here and I couldn't find it on the Lowes website. Any suggestions as to where I can get it?
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Old 12-21-13, 01:39 PM   #414
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Default

Lowes sells the pactiv brand XPS board. I believe the 25PSI stuff is the Greenguard. The 25PSI strength is the ASTM type IV product class. Insulfoam has the R-tech IV product line. These are comparable to the Foamular 250 insulation.

Edit: Confirmed. Here's the comparison sheet.

Lowes part # 304089 (1 inch), 304090 (2 inch)

Last edited by jeff5may; 12-21-13 at 02:03 PM.. Reason: info
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Old 12-21-13, 03:16 PM   #415
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Thanks Jeff. Lowes is a longer drive but they are a better store than my local HD. I'll make the trip after the holidays.
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Old 02-27-14, 01:24 AM   #416
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Default Just a quick follow up after years of using my floors....

Here is an original post:
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/renova...eating-21.html

After a few years of using my floors I can say only one thing AMAZING.....

Failures 0. Everything works just like clock. No noises. Temperature is stable and I don't need to touch anything.

My heating bill for 4200sqft home is about $70 on coldest months.
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Old 02-27-14, 11:49 AM   #417
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Vlad

Those are some impressive results. I looked back quickly through your thread and I couldn't conclude the heat source that your utilizing for that $70.00/month heating bill.

The home you have is a rather large at 4200 sq ft. and heating that for $70.00/m is unbelievable. If you could maybe list the items that make this feasible would be great.

Did you get your DIY Geothermal heat pump system installed?? Do you still have some input from the gas fired DHWT.

Thanks Randen
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Old 02-27-14, 01:40 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randen View Post
Vlad

Those are some impressive results. I looked back quickly through your thread and I couldn't conclude the heat source that your utilizing for that $70.00/month heating bill.

The home you have is a rather large at 4200 sq ft. and heating that for $70.00/m is unbelievable. If you could maybe list the items that make this feasible would be great.

Did you get your DIY Geothermal heat pump system installed?? Do you still have some input from the gas fired DHWT.

Thanks Randen
Here are more details:

1. Heat source is DHWT regular power vented 65% efficient 24000BTU net

2. Floor coverings 20-25% tiles rest hardwood no carpet

3. Max water temperature at manifold entry this heating season 90F (Max Min values stored in control unit)

4. $70 is a difference in my gas bill summer/winter. We use gas for heating hot water we have gas range/stove and gas cloth dried.

5. The crawl space walls are just 8" concrete non insulated yet. The concrete slab is also uninsulated. The first floor is uninsulated from this cool crawl space.

6. I didn't hook up heat pump for heating system it only used for AC and preheating cold air for fresh air supply. I use it just once in a while max ones a week in winter and as needed for AC in summer.

Last edited by Vlad; 02-27-14 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 02-27-14, 01:49 PM   #419
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The design I used is very simple and cheap and you can buy most components right at your closest lumber yard.

I see people are trying too hard to make tube part more efficient by using some expensive materials and insulators like HD foam etc. The water temperature in loop is very low the heat loss is minimal in this area.

I think the biggest efficiency contributor is my control system multizone manifold using outdoor temperature sensor and variable speed pump control. All components are listed in thread before.

Also this system is low thermal mass system it follows heat demand just almost like air furnace. Concrete filled floors are very high thermal mass systems and will work efficiently only if heat demand is stable. We have one day 15F the next day 45F. Concrete floors will be comfy one day and will fry you the other day.

If I were to build this system again I would use high efficiency HWT or boiler as a heat source or WW heat pump. Also I would build arduino control system using flow control sensors and adjustable flow control valves for each loop and speed control for main water pump. This would make system even more flexible and controllable and definitely more efficient

Last edited by Vlad; 02-27-14 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 02-27-14, 04:56 PM   #420
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Default Vlad's House...

I'd have to add to what Vlad has said, by noting that his whole house is new-built with 6" studs, 24" spaced walls, insulated with mineral wool, double glazed windows.

And also Vlad is a total fiend when it comes to sealing air leaks. I've never seen anyone so thorough with a can of foam.

Please note that his HDD is a fairly moderate yearly average of 6399 Fahrenheit (based on 68F) or 3555 Centigrade (based on 20C).

[* EDIT above to include both Fahrenheit and Centigrade HDD *]

* * *

Hey Vlad, how many Therms of gas did you burn during the months of December also for February? Please include the billing dates for Dec & Feb. Also your zip code or equivalent.

I've come up with a very interesting way to do a heating analysis for your house.

Best,

-AC

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