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Old 01-06-09, 08:36 AM   #1
SVOboy
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Default Renewables are Now Cheaper than Nuclear - Next Stop: Coal

For a while now people have been saying that renewables would pass the economic litmus test when they became cheaper than coal, particularly when photovoltaics became cheaper than coal. That hasn’t happened yet, but with renewable energy prices dropping and the costs of safely managing nuclear plants rising, renewable energy has become cheaper, on average, [...]Post from: EcoRenovator.org

Renewables are Now Cheaper than Nuclear - Next Stop: Coal



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Old 01-06-09, 09:00 AM   #2
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I didn't read the source or the report yet. I just wonder what the general accepted cost per kWh is for wind, biogas, water, etc.
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Old 03-28-21, 07:34 PM   #3
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I know this is one old post but it's nice to update old posts, you know so you can see how things played out.

This happened after new mexicos out of cycle "blue wave".
https://www.heartland.org/news-opini...energy-mandate

Now PNM is approved for a 7% rate increase. They wanted 14.4% and they are still going to fight for it. And here it is straight from the horses mouth pnm dot com.
https://www.pnm.com/0115-ew-rate-increase-request

Yeah so it looks like renewable aren't always cheaper. Yes hydro electric geothermal always wins. It appears the first 15% to 20% of wind power capacity makes your power cheaper especially when you get a large share of your power from coal and natural gas, but anything more than 25% wind power appears to always be a liability. And generally solar is always more expensive, it's only cheaper like wind with in a certain set of parameters. If your load always peaks during the day, all 12 months a year, then yeah solar is the answer, above 10% it's definitely a liability. In a California I believe they call it the "swan curve" phenomenon. Where demand for the day picks up before the sun is up then all the south facing grid tied arrays roar to life as the sun comes up causing generation demand to dive.
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Old 03-31-21, 12:11 AM   #4
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Perhaps more investment in automated load management is the answer? The technology to make it happen (for example, Raspberry Pi or ESP32) is dirt cheap. Likewise, thermal storage for HVAC is also dirt cheap. What's missing is the software and standardization to tie it together and that's something the open source community can work on!
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Old 04-10-21, 08:10 PM   #5
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Solar thermal and PV is a good investment for us "small guys": individual and single family home dwellers. Nearly as good for retail store rooftops. Return on investment is usually pretty short (under 5 years) if you don't have a battery bank (or huge thermal store). With the modular and microinverter setups out now, you don't have to go "all in" like systems of the past. A modest system can be expanded upon over time without having to reinvent the wheel every phase.
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Old 07-31-21, 09:14 AM   #6
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Just took another look at this thread, and I'm sort of surprised there aren't more responses.

The thing that most sours my outlook on wind and solar sources is the natural gas backup that comes with them. Over the last decade or so, lots of countries around the world have been trying to transition away from nuclear power generation and towards wind and PV power. The operating data coming from the shift of source points to the idea that natural gas emissions are a lot cleaner than coal emissions, but the whole"carbon footprint" hasn't changed much.
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Old 07-31-21, 10:42 AM   #7
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When I read/hear that "PV is now very cheap", I remember something I read recently, related to the boom on PV in Europe and the rest of the world. It stated that among the reasons for the fall in PV prices are not only large-scale production and new technologies, but also companies riding the wave of popularity by producing poor quality panels.
The life expectancy (drop in efficiency) of such panels is half of what the standard was until recently (25-30 years), and this is assuming they survive even moderate hail storms, not to mention short circuits and other failures.

Now, some customers are OK with paying less and getting less, but this moves us even more into the direction of short-lived disposables. This means that in 10-15 years we will see more electronic waste, which will have to be replaced, including all of the energy consuming steps of mining, processing, manufacturing, transporting, etc.

Yes, due to the cheap price of low quality many people can afford PV, who normally would not be able to invest in it. So they will produce energy, somewhat offsetting today's nuclear and fossil pollution, but actually only moving that burden to the next decade.

I dunno, maybe it's still worth it. Or maybe this isn't the right thread.
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Old 08-03-21, 01:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I know this is one old post but it's nice to update old posts, you know so you can see how things played out.

This happened after new mexicos out of cycle "blue wave".
https://www.heartland.org/news-opini...energy-mandate

Now PNM is approved for a 7% rate increase. They wanted 14.4% and they are still going to fight for it. And here it is straight from the horses mouth pnm dot com.
https://www.pnm.com/0115-ew-rate-increase-request

Yeah so it looks like renewable aren't always cheaper. Yes hydro electric geothermal always wins. It appears the first 15% to 20% of wind power capacity makes your power cheaper especially when you get a large share of your power from coal and natural gas, but anything more than 25% wind power appears to always be a liability. And generally solar is always more expensive, it's only cheaper like wind with in a certain set of parameters. If your load always peaks during the day, all 12 months a year, then yeah solar is the answer, above 10% it's definitely a liability. In a California I believe they call it the "swan curve" phenomenon. Where demand for the day picks up before the sun is up then all the south facing grid tied arrays roar to life as the sun comes up causing generation demand to dive.
there's also the option of putting in so much solar that you curtail it most of the time, negating the need for daylight-hour storage. look at it like a solar peaker plant with high capital cost and no fuel cost.

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