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Old 09-02-17, 08:12 PM   #91
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Nice job creeky, great seeing all the progress and items you are bringing to the market.
I just about have the all the Volt modules sold that I was not going to use.
Currently waiting on my controller to come in. I am picking up some SolarWorld panels locally(Craigslist) tomorrow. I have not had any luck with regarding getting charging profiles changed on the economical inverter/chargers. So most likely going with the 48/1200 Victron Energy like you did for Lakeside Ontario's kit. Next jump up in the Victron Energy is a bit more costly and for what I am doing I don't need to go that big.

Did you make the monitor you mentioned of that you use with the old connectors with?

Have you made progress on a BMS?

I saved everything from the volt battery,harness,connections,BMS just in case some of the other items can be used. So far pretty good as I have waited and found the items I need at a good price.

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Old 09-03-17, 09:07 AM   #92
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Glad to hear things are progressing.

The harnesses may be of use. You can use the plugs with a 6 or 8S cell monitor. As seen previously here.

I don't like BMS solutions. I've yet to see one that is both cheap and quality. I like my new harnesses. They tie the cells together making the pack more robust in terms of cell management. I will be adding "active cell balancers" as some of my friends want them.

And I will have a "cell balancer tool" to rent. So if you're monitoring and you see a couple of cells out of whack you can rent a balancer and fix the problem.

For the price of the Victron solar controller VS the capability. There really is no other choice right now. These devices are both inexpensive and easy to use and high quality. There are lots of controllers of almost equal value. Almost. If I was still tight for SESS I would say go Morningstar. They use the lowest idle power.

You won't be disappointed that you spent a few dollars more on your inverter.

Best of luck.
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Old 10-04-17, 10:56 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeky View Post
Glad to hear things are progressing.

The harnesses may be of use. You can use the plugs with a 6 or 8S cell monitor. As seen previously here.

I don't like BMS solutions. I've yet to see one that is both cheap and quality. I like my new harnesses. They tie the cells together making the pack more robust in terms of cell management. I will be adding "active cell balancers" as some of my friends want them.
Hi Creeky,

Thank you for taking the first step so others like me can follow. I am throwing around the idea of getting the Volt or Leaf battery to switch my AGM bank over to Lithium. However it seem it's a lot harder for me to come over a Leaf pack vs a Volt pack. The only issue with the Volt is that we are unable to split the cell to reconfig the pack voltage. Safely charged 12s only give 48-49volts and most standard inverter isn't happy at that voltage. For say my Conext XW+, it can function between 40-60volts. BUT to use the Hybrid function where it uses the grid support mode, you can only set the grid support voltage down to 47volts. Meaning it will stop inverting to support the load if battery voltage drop to 47volts. At 47volts, I think the battery is still at 70-80%?

Also, I am worry about the pack being parralles first, then series, than parallels again, like you mention. 3p12s6p? I have look at your picture, it's unclear of how you had it wired? Did you just wired the two main +,- of each 48volts module in series? But you did not interconnect each individual cells of the 12s together right? Even so your result show no significant amount of imbalance?

Later on you said you got those balance connector that allow you to interconnect all of the balance tab for each 48volts module parallels to each other, so each cells on each 48v battery can balance each other?

Is it like the picture I attached here?

thank you.
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Old 10-04-17, 11:31 AM   #94
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I am super pleased to announce the addition of the BMS. This is a simple "active balancing" unit wired here for 12S! Huzzah



JimmyAz. yes. The wiring basically goes as your diagram suggests.

It is a bit of a kludge. However, after over a year in operation it works beautifully. You will be very surprised and pleased with the increase in efficiency going to lithium. Watch your temperatures for long life tho.

I have seen no imbalance of note. The use of the harness increases the durability of the system by tying the cells together. As you note. The new BMS solution improves on this by adding active cell balancing. With the PCB everything is tied together. Its pretty cool. Especially if you look back to where I started.

Personally I prefer the Volt cells. The lifespan looks incredible so far. However the Leaf cells have some nice advantages: they don't need the harness. So you can save a bit of money there. But they also are easier to manage and you can do a more traditional 56v pack quite easily. In my climate they are also rated to charge down to -10C (Celsius). Compared to the Volt packs at 5C and 48v.

The Leaf cells are like hen's teeth tho. I have seen 1. Its in my yard. Pricey but couldn't resist.



I'm not familiar with the XW. Have you updated firmware etc?

I have only done SW installs with Schneider. I haven't had to configure "grid support." So I don't understand why you can't configure say grid support from 42v. Perhaps touch base with Schneider on this issue and report back?
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Old 10-04-17, 01:40 PM   #95
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I am super pleased to announce the addition of the BMS. This is a simple "active balancing" unit wired here for 12S! Huzzah

JimmyAz. yes. The wiring basically goes as your diagram suggests.

It is a bit of a kludge. However, after over a year in operation it works beautifully. You will be very surprised and pleased with the increase in efficiency going to lithium. Watch your temperatures for long life tho.

I have seen no imbalance of note. The use of the harness increases the durability of the system by tying the cells together. As you note. The new BMS solution improves on this by adding active cell balancing. With the PCB everything is tied together. Its pretty cool. Especially if you look back to where I started.

Personally I prefer the Volt cells. The lifespan looks incredible so far. However the Leaf cells have some nice advantages: they don't need the harness. So you can save a bit of money there. But they also are easier to manage and you can do a more traditional 56v pack quite easily. In my climate they are also rated to charge down to -10C (Celsius). Compared to the Volt packs at 5C and 48v.

The Leaf cells are like hen's teeth tho. I have seen 1. Its in my yard. Pricey but couldn't resist.

I'm not familiar with the XW. Have you updated firmware etc?

I have only done SW installs with Schneider. I haven't had to configure "grid support." So I don't understand why you can't configure say grid support from 42v. Perhaps touch base with Schneider on this issue and report back?
Thank you so much for your fast reply.

I am surprised that even without each cells tied together, they still stay in balance very well. If the cells are tied together, I think it can do without BMS.

I have always thought the Volt and Leaf shared the same lithium chemistry? But you're saying they are different and the Volt supposed to have more life cycle?

It just hit me that the Volt is actually a Hybrid and not a fully electric car? I always thought it was all electric? If this is the case, is it safe to say that a 30k miles Volt battery have less cycle than the 30k miles Leaf? Because the Leaf run purely on battery and would use more cycle quicker than the Volt? All of the 2013-2015 Volt has a 18kw pack right?

As for the Conext XW vs SW, they both share the same setup when it come to the grid support mode. The inverter software simply WILL not let you set the grid support voltage below 47volts. Also I am pretty sure Schneider wouldn't even bother looking into making any changes, they are just not like those small company who actually listen to consumer. (long story how I know).

Could you please tell me how much of a voltage drop on your 13kw packs if you were to pull like 2000-3000watts? If the pack is at, let say 80-85% capacity, which is like 4.0v per cells and at what SOC would it be when it's at about 47volts? This will tell me if the 47volts cut off for grid support is possible.

I am sorry for so many questions, but you may be the only one who can answer all these question and I am sure it would be helpful for others who ran across this thread like I am. THANKS!
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Old 10-04-17, 11:04 PM   #96
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So I have been thinking.... Since I am using a Midnite Classic 150 charge controller and it can do 12-72volts battery.

What if I make it a 18s, 4volts per cells X 18 = 72max. This mean I can series the 48 and 24 module together. However, my inverter show it can only handle 60volts max. But I should be ok if I set my charge controller to never charge above 60volts. But then this would only allow me to charge each cells to 3.3volts

The other option is to connect the 48v module and 24v module, but only use up to 14s to make 51.8v nominal, that would be perfect.... and leave the other the left over cell un-use. But is it possible to add a terminal in between the tab?

Advise anyone?
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Old 10-05-17, 06:18 PM   #97
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see the Schneider grid support page

I don't really understand what you're trying to do. Are you selling to the grid? In this case the inverter is expecting you want your batteries fully charged first. Then it sells excess power to the grid.

I don't see the problem with 47v in that case.

And I think the Schneider XW supports up to 66v? No?
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Old 10-05-17, 06:42 PM   #98
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see the

I don't really understand what you're trying to do. Are you selling to the grid? In this case the inverter is expecting you want your batteries fully charged first. Then it sells excess power to the grid.

I don't see the problem with 47v in that case.

And I think the Schneider XW supports up to 66v? No?
Not selling ever. Grid support = puling power from the grid to support load base on battery voltage. So let say i set it at 47volts. The inverter would only invert dc from battery yo aupport my loads if battery is above 47volts. The higher voltage mean it will invert more and more up to 90% of my load. What worrying about is that the battery would not have enough voltage room and it would drop below 47volts and it would not inverting even when battery is still full. If this happen it would pull all power from grid and not inverting.

What do you think of using the 2x 24v and tie it to the 48v to make it 15s? Placing the battery in ways that i could use half of that 24v module but without actually separated them cells.
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Old 10-05-17, 07:15 PM   #99
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Can you start your own thread on this. Thank you.

I am not an expert in this scenario. And I'm not sure I understand your question. I would contact Schneider. According to what I read in the manual the inverter will function normally. Good luck.

I don't recommend cutting up the Volt modules. Its way easier to use them configured as they are. But I know others have cut them up. Divide the bus bar between cells and away you go. It does destroy the built in BMS wiring. Which I find useful for attaching monitors and the new BMS solution.
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Old 10-06-17, 12:29 PM   #100
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