Inefficient home or inefficient GSHP?

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Mikesolar

3-4 minutes for an off cycle is fine. 10 minutes as minimum run time MIGHT be an issue but lets see. As long at it doesn't start going out on a high limit switch, it may be better. I don't know of any loops that go out under the floor, usually they go out the wall or occasionally above grade like Randens then down but I am sure there are some. I wouldn't do it.

I must be in a little (but growing) bubble of people who want better than code. All I put in basements is floor heating and this always gets at least 2" of foam, 3-4 if possible.

I suggest you start planning for what you can do and the basement is part one. One thing you can do in the summer, if you can, is to lay foam flat 2 ft under grade and out 4-6 ft from the house wall (all around). This will bring the heated thermocline up and keep the entire area under the house from getting as cold over the winter. It is labourious but doable.

Then....get onto the walls. Extend the extra foam right down as low as you can below grade. Big benefit.

Pics of the house would be nice. hint hint.

There is 4" foam 8' out from the walkout wall about 3' under grade. The walkout wall drops 5' below grade. This continues around the corners till the grade is at full depth. As far as the code goes I wish I had known more about it at the time, all the builders we talked to did about the same style so we just assumed that was good...

[mechanic]

Here's a few pics if the place

[mechanic]

And the front

[Mikesolar]

Most design/build builders pick technologies that are easily understood and that compete with other builders, in terms of their cost to build. They are less interested in building something a cut above, unless the owner is adamant that they want better efficiency or solar or something else.

This may be long winded but .....You may find a builder who wants to make their name doing that but chances are, especially in your area, and places that aren't like Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver (full of people with extra money and where the home value will allow some extra to be spent on the upgrades), that the competition for a project may outweigh the cost of the upgrades. Builders concentrate on bling, if given the chance, because it sells.

[randen]

Mechanic

Nice crib, nice area, Countryside!! 4 car garage!!!

I haven't got a handle on your construction. The basement walls are ICF (insulated concrete forms) foam blocks with rebar?? or foam integrated with concrete forms?
The basement floor is wood????

Something is sprayfoamed?? main floor walls and vaulted ceiling??

All sounds great except basement floor. This could be an area of concentration. You had mentioned it felt OK on the feet but maybe your sending lots of heat downward.

I realize its a huge job but excavating by hand or maybe you have ample headroom installing 3-4" of HD foam board then the PEX tubing followed by 3" concrete and warming the floor. It would help the whole house.

We only heat the main floor and the upstairs is more radiantly heated upward.

6 ton is a huge machine. questions are, Are you getting enough heat from the loop??? Checked mine for an example 8.8 Deg. C. coming in 6.2 Deg. C. returning to the loop.

Obviously you are bringing in heat BUT. where is it all going.

What is this run time??? is this your compressors duty cycle?? Is it only running 10 min.?? and off for 3 min. Too short. That start up current will drive your operational costs through the roof. Geo thermal heat-pumps are designed to run nearly non stop, in-fact the applications are designed to meet only about 95% of the heat load.

Randen

[Mikesolar]

Ya better read the whole thread Randen, the walls need work and probably the roof insulation too. The basement ICF is good tho. I would get a sprayfoam company to come in next summer and put 3" of foam on the ground then put the wood back.

He has the HP set on stage one at the moment to be a better match for the loops.

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Mikesolar

Most design/build builders pick technologies that are easily understood and that compete with other builders, in terms of their cost to build. They are less interested in building something a cut above, unless the owner is adamant that they want better efficiency or solar or something else.

This may be long winded but .....You may find a builder who wants to make their name doing that but chances are, especially in your area, and places that aren't like Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver (full of people with extra money and where the home value will allow some extra to be spent on the upgrades), that the competition for a project may outweigh the cost of the upgrades. Builders concentrate on bling, if given the chance, because it sells.

Makes sense, I'd imagine most people buy an RTM they way we did, come up with a set of plans we liked then brought them to each builder for a quote...

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by randen

Mechanic

Nice crib, nice area, Countryside!! 4 car garage!!!

Thanks! Didn't plan on going that big with the garage but there was a 50'x60' concrete pad from an old Quonset there so the cost was small. I have 600 sq feet partitioned off and heated.

I haven't got a handle on your construction. The basement walls are ICF (insulated concrete forms) foam blocks with rebar?? or foam integrated with concrete forms?
The basement floor is wood????

Something is sprayfoamed?? main floor walls and vaulted ceiling??

just where home joins the basement is sprayfoamed. Basement is ICF with 8" concrete and rebar. Floor is wood over crushed rock and a radon barrier.

All sounds great except basement floor. This could be an area of concentration. You had mentioned it felt OK on the feet but maybe your sending lots of heat downward.

I realize its a huge job but excavating by hand or maybe you have ample headroom installing 3-4" of HD foam board then the PEX tubing followed by 3" concrete and warming the floor. It would help the whole house.

We only heat the main floor and the upstairs is more radiantly heated upward.

our geo unit is forced air only, contracter wanted 20,000 more to have in floor and forced air combo, recommended not doing radiant only

6 ton is a huge machine. questions are, Are you getting enough heat from the loop??? Checked mine for an example 8.8 Deg. C. coming in 6.2 Deg. C. returning to the loop.

Obviously you are bringing in heat BUT. where is it all going.

What is this run time??? is this your compressors duty cycle?? Is it only running 10 min.?? and off for 3 min. Too short. That start up current will drive your operational costs through the roof. Geo thermal heat-pumps are designed to run nearly non stop, in-fact the applications are designed to meet only about 95% of the heat load.

Randen

i attached my run times currently on stage one only

[mechanic]

Here is where I sprayfoamed

[mechanic]

Another thing I noticed over during Christmas dinner is with my air exchanger on high the house was cooling down considerbly. It is an older model we got secondhand and I know it's wired in to run when the geothermal runs, I'll have to take some temp measurements at the outside vents...