Whole house Watt meter

ecomodded · 10-07-12, 05:51 PM

I was wanting a Watt meter to measure appliance and entertainment watt consumption and costs of my home when i happened upon Blue Line power usage/cost monitor bli-28000 and bought it (1/2 price)

I decided on this type of device over the plug in type power meters was because my house was recently equipped with a Smart meter with its inability to show current use or a way to check its accuracy. This watt meter will allow me to check the use of individual appliances or items, by pressing the appliance mod button and turning the appliance or power bar on.

http://www.bluelineinnovations.com/S.../How-It-Works/

To test the Smart meters accuracy i will flip off my main house breaker and check if the meter still shows usage, I can run a know wattage appliances like a toaster or tv and verify the meter is not over charging.
The smart meter is going to finally get smart

ecomodded · 10-07-12, 06:17 PM

Here's a link to a video of the unit for a explanation and a size reference as the above photo was not very accurate.
Blue Line Innovations: Customer Service > Time of Use Structures

Piwoslaw · 10-08-12, 01:43 AM

There are other energy measuring devices you can read up on. Check out these two threads:
Got a TED 5000
Using home energy montior

You might also be able to have smart meter installed, ask your local utility.

ecomodded · 10-08-12, 10:51 AM

The smart meter has been already installed, it is a dumb meter, until i add this whole house power cost meter.
As it is now the smart meter on the house only displays the total kwh used,pretty stupid for a smart meter, there is no way to tell if the meter is moving or not short of standing outside and waiting until 1 kwh has passed,.
This gizmo is the other half to the smart meter,the half that allows the meter to be smart.
In Britain, I understand, they give this type of meter add on to the homeowner when they install the smart meter.

Xringer · 10-08-12, 11:39 AM

A while back, I was able to check out the accuracy of my meter by using the Watt-hour Dot Display
on the LCD http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-yourself.html
by plugging in a space heater (and nothing else), then measuring the line voltage,
and line current with a clamp-on amp meter.

(Watch those little bars in the lower right corner of the LCD, in this .GIF pic)..

The watts displayed on the meter, matched my volt meter x clamp-on amp meter almost exactly.

I used those little bars to calibrate the Whole-House power monitor that I was using to monitor my heating system (not the whole house).

Many new meters have those little flashing bars, but most folks have no idea what they mean..

ecomodded · 10-08-12, 01:15 PM

My smart meter is model C2S and it gives no indications of current power use. My actual meter is below.
It is pre-loaded with unactivated hardware needed to send wireless signals to a display or my computer reporting actual current usage and more.

Three Antennas Inside a Smart Meter

Two separate transmitters are contained in smart meters. The wireless mesh network can be referred to as an RF LAN (radio frequency local area network).

The RF LAN operates in the 902-928 MHz license free band using spread spectrum transmitting technology. A second, separate transmitter that operates in the 2.4 GHz frequency range (2405
MHz to 2483 MHz) uses direct sequence spread spectrum technology that is referred to as a Zigbeeradio.
This Second transmitter is included for use with Home Area Networks (HANs) allowing customers, for
example, to control certain electric appliances or systems within the home. When fully implemented, the
customers will be able to connect wirelessly with the HAN radio and set times at which various appliances
and/or electrical systems may operate, thereby taking advantage of those times during which electricity rates are lowest.

The RF LAN provides data communications among the various end-point meters and an associated cell relay meter.

Cell relays are end-point meters that contain yet a THIRD Transceiver that is designed for wireless connection to the cellular WWAN, i.e., relaying of the data received from the various end-point meters over a private connection to the electric utility company.

The transceivers use the same frequency bands used by cell phones.

Two different frequency bands are used by these cell-relay transceivers, either the 850 MHz band or the 1900 MHz band.

Xringer · 10-08-12, 02:43 PM

My meager understanding of smart meters (in the USA)was the power usage data was
periodically being sent to the power co.
To see your pwr use in semi-real-time, you have to log on to the power co website.

It sounds like your smart meter is really equipped with tons-o-radios..

I've looked into trying to capture the radio signal of my meter, and folks say
the signal is very hard to hear (moving frequency) and it's encrypted!

It's cool that you can read out your meter on your PC without spending
a lot of money on special hardware.

It seems like there has been some bugs in your system up there..

Spiked Hydro Bills Put Smart Meters Under Gun - YouTube

I guess you will have to track your own usage, if you plan to fight extra
high charges for power you didn't use..

But, hanging an optical (or other) sensor on a Smart Meter that might be pretty dumb,
may not be the best way to get accurate data..
The data might already be corrupt, before it's sent to BC Hydro..?.

A stand-alone unit might be better to find out if your Smart meter starts going nuts.
I used this one, (Which broke on me)!

Before going to the TED.

(These were used to measure my HVAC costs).

ecomodded · 10-08-12, 04:47 PM

Quote: Xringer
I guess you will have to track your own usage, if you plan to fight extra
high charges for power you didn't use..

But, hanging an optical (or other) sensor on a Smart Meter that might be pretty dumb,
may not be the best way to get accurate data..
The data might already be corrupt, before it's sent to BC Hydro..?.

A stand-alone unit might be better to find out if your Smart meter starts going nuts.
I used this one, (Which broke on me)!
~~end quote~~
`````````````````````````````````````````````

I do indeed want to have a TED to measure actual output as compared to the meters readings.
The way i will use the bli-2800 to test for accuracy is to add a know load and watch for the meters reading to compare changes.

Then to test my house by flipping the main breaker off and read the meter for consumption, some of the inaccurate meters have been know to show a constant energy use despite no power being used.

If i had the TED i could test the output of the smart meters display to the teds usage display.

Not much different from me using the bli-2800 to measure meter energy use compared to know wattage's of the appliance/ device.
The power cost meter i bought, the bli-2800 has a accuracy of 1% the TED has a accuracy of 2%,Although the bli-2800 display is in .1 kw resolution (100w) the 1001 TED is in 10w resolution and the ted 5000 has a 1w resolution.

And yes we here in Canada not just B.C have been having accuracy issues with the new Smart meters pacifically the meters reading is high in favor of the electric company.

I have been learning of the TED's from this site first the internet after.
Thanks everyone!

Xringer · 10-08-12, 07:25 PM

"If i had the TED i could test the output of the smart meters display to the teds usage display.

Not much different from me using the bli-2800 to measure meter energy use compared to know wattage's of the appliance/ device. "

The problem is, you can't depend on the 'known wattage' of a device, it it will change
with any change in line voltage, and is never exactly the wattage stated on the device label.

Has recent history of the Hydro Smart meters shown they are accurate?
If not, would the IR signal out of those meters be accurate?

The TED doesn't depend on your home's electric meter to feed it signals.
A TED uses it's own current probes to measure current and a volt meter to measure voltage.
From those two parameters, it will calculate and display your watts being used in real-time,
and records the kWh used for each day and billing cycle. (Up to 1 year of history IIRC).

ecomodded · 10-08-12, 08:23 PM

To test i can switch of all breakers except for one which will not have any power used, with that circuit i'll plug in a 120v 1500w baseboard heater which i have but don't use, and read the meter for usage, it should not be over the rated wattage, the volt x amp = watt with no heat losses.

Testing my smart meter is only a part of my use for it, i want to see my whole house power usage in real time and basic facts like hot water tank heat times durations and just how much power my electric heaters are using and costing to operate at that moment. Just that benefit is reason enough but it is also as i stated the other half to the smart meter,the smart half

.

I will be purchasing at some point a plug in the wall, watt meter for its higher resolution of individual items like fridge etc..
the wall watt meter would be the cheapest at this point..

10-07-12, 05:51 PM	#1
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Whole house Watt meter I was wanting a Watt meter to measure appliance and entertainment watt consumption and costs of my home when i happened upon Blue Line power usage/cost monitor bli-28000 and bought it (1/2 price) I decided on this type of device over the plug in type power meters was because my house was recently equipped with a Smart meter with its inability to show current use or a way to check its accuracy. This watt meter will allow me to check the use of individual appliances or items, by pressing the appliance mod button and turning the appliance or power bar on. http://www.bluelineinnovations.com/S.../How-It-Works/ To test the Smart meters accuracy i will flip off my main house breaker and check if the meter still shows usage, I can run a know wattage appliances like a toaster or tv and verify the meter is not over charging. The smart meter is going to finally get smart Attached Thumbnails

10-08-12, 01:43 AM	#3
Piwoslaw Super Moderator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Warsaw, Poland Posts: 964 Thanks: 189 Thanked 111 Times in 87 Posts	There are other energy measuring devices you can read up on. Check out these two threads: Got a TED 5000 Using home energy montior You might also be able to have smart meter installed, ask your local utility. __________________ Ecorenovation - the bottomless piggy bank that tries to tame the energy hog.

10-08-12, 11:39 AM	#5
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	A while back, I was able to check out the accuracy of my meter by using the Watt-hour Dot Display on the LCD http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...-yourself.html by plugging in a space heater (and nothing else), then measuring the line voltage, and line current with a clamp-on amp meter. (Watch those little bars in the lower right corner of the LCD, in this .GIF pic).. The watts displayed on the meter, matched my volt meter x clamp-on amp meter almost exactly. I used those little bars to calibrate the Whole-House power monitor that I was using to monitor my heating system (not the whole house). Many new meters have those little flashing bars, but most folks have no idea what they mean.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 10-08-12 at 11:45 AM..

10-08-12, 01:15 PM	#6
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	My smart meter is model C2S and it gives no indications of current power use. My actual meter is below. It is pre-loaded with unactivated hardware needed to send wireless signals to a display or my computer reporting actual current usage and more. Three Antennas Inside a Smart Meter Two separate transmitters are contained in smart meters. The wireless mesh network can be referred to as an RF LAN (radio frequency local area network). The RF LAN operates in the 902-928 MHz license free band using spread spectrum transmitting technology. A second, separate transmitter that operates in the 2.4 GHz frequency range (2405 MHz to 2483 MHz) uses direct sequence spread spectrum technology that is referred to as a Zigbeeradio. This Second transmitter is included for use with Home Area Networks (HANs) allowing customers, for example, to control certain electric appliances or systems within the home. When fully implemented, the customers will be able to connect wirelessly with the HAN radio and set times at which various appliances and/or electrical systems may operate, thereby taking advantage of those times during which electricity rates are lowest. The RF LAN provides data communications among the various end-point meters and an associated cell relay meter. Cell relays are end-point meters that contain yet a THIRD Transceiver that is designed for wireless connection to the cellular WWAN, i.e., relaying of the data received from the various end-point meters over a private connection to the electric utility company. The transceivers use the same frequency bands used by cell phones. Two different frequency bands are used by these cell-relay transceivers, either the 850 MHz band or the 1900 MHz band. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by ecomodded; 10-08-12 at 01:28 PM..

10-08-12, 04:47 PM	#8
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Quote: Xringer I guess you will have to track your own usage, if you plan to fight extra high charges for power you didn't use.. But, hanging an optical (or other) sensor on a Smart Meter that might be pretty dumb, may not be the best way to get accurate data.. The data might already be corrupt, before it's sent to BC Hydro..?. A stand-alone unit might be better to find out if your Smart meter starts going nuts. I used this one, (Which broke on me)! ~~end quote~~ ````````````````````````````````````````````` I do indeed want to have a TED to measure actual output as compared to the meters readings. The way i will use the bli-2800 to test for accuracy is to add a know load and watch for the meters reading to compare changes. Then to test my house by flipping the main breaker off and read the meter for consumption, some of the inaccurate meters have been know to show a constant energy use despite no power being used. If i had the TED i could test the output of the smart meters display to the teds usage display. Not much different from me using the bli-2800 to measure meter energy use compared to know wattage's of the appliance/ device. The power cost meter i bought, the bli-2800 has a accuracy of 1% the TED has a accuracy of 2%,Although the bli-2800 display is in .1 kw resolution (100w) the 1001 TED is in 10w resolution and the ted 5000 has a 1w resolution. And yes we here in Canada not just B.C have been having accuracy issues with the new Smart meters pacifically the meters reading is high in favor of the electric company. I have been learning of the TED's from this site first the internet after. Thanks everyone! Last edited by ecomodded; 10-08-12 at 05:20 PM..

10-07-12, 06:17 PM	#2
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Here's a link to a video of the unit for a explanation and a size reference as the above photo was not very accurate. Blue Line Innovations: Customer Service > Time of Use Structures

10-08-12, 10:51 AM	#4
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	The smart meter has been already installed, it is a dumb meter, until i add this whole house power cost meter. As it is now the smart meter on the house only displays the total kwh used,pretty stupid for a smart meter, there is no way to tell if the meter is moving or not short of standing outside and waiting until 1 kwh has passed,. This gizmo is the other half to the smart meter,the half that allows the meter to be smart. In Britain, I understand, they give this type of meter add on to the homeowner when they install the smart meter.

10-08-12, 07:25 PM	#9
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	"If i had the TED i could test the output of the smart meters display to the teds usage display. Not much different from me using the bli-2800 to measure meter energy use compared to know wattage's of the appliance/ device. " The problem is, you can't depend on the 'known wattage' of a device, it it will change with any change in line voltage, and is never exactly the wattage stated on the device label. Has recent history of the Hydro Smart meters shown they are accurate? If not, would the IR signal out of those meters be accurate? The TED doesn't depend on your home's electric meter to feed it signals. A TED uses it's own current probes to measure current and a volt meter to measure voltage. From those two parameters, it will calculate and display your watts being used in real-time, and records the kWh used for each day and billing cycle. (Up to 1 year of history IIRC). __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 10-08-12 at 07:28 PM..

10-08-12, 08:23 PM	#10
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	To test i can switch of all breakers except for one which will not have any power used, with that circuit i'll plug in a 120v 1500w baseboard heater which i have but don't use, and read the meter for usage, it should not be over the rated wattage, the volt x amp = watt with no heat losses. Testing my smart meter is only a part of my use for it, i want to see my whole house power usage in real time and basic facts like hot water tank heat times durations and just how much power my electric heaters are using and costing to operate at that moment. Just that benefit is reason enough but it is also as i stated the other half to the smart meter,the smart half. I will be purchasing at some point a plug in the wall, watt meter for its higher resolution of individual items like fridge etc.. the wall watt meter would be the cheapest at this point.. Last edited by ecomodded; 10-08-12 at 09:11 PM..