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Old 12-14-10, 03:33 PM   #1
Ryland
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Default Take your hot water with you, vehicle heating idea.

I don't know if anyone else hear reads Farm Show Magazine but it has projects that people did around their farm.
Anyway, I bring this up because a few years back they had a short article about heating up your vehicle that has been parked for days, one person had a ground loop of pex full of anti-freeze with a small pump and quick connect fittings on either end, the tractor or truck then had the same kind of connections hooked up to the engine so you could pump 50 degree fluid from below the frost line in to the engine.
Another person had more or less an on demand hot water heater on a cart that they would haul out and connect up in the same way.
Now yesterday I was talking to the President of Bubbling Springs Solar (maker of solar hot water panels) and he was telling me about a trucking company that wanted to use solar hot water panels to keep their trucks warm in the winter.
Now I got to thinking, what if you had a heat exchanger on your hot water heater that went to your garage and had anti-freeze in it (maybe use the food safe type) so when you get home you dump the heat from your vehicle in to your house, then use that heat in the form of preheated water while you are home, next day when you leave the house take that heat with you again by pumping that hot water in to your vehicle.

I'm not personally ready for a project like this, but I would like to try it at some point, assuming that I don't move to only having an electric car.

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Old 12-15-10, 01:02 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
one person had a ground loop of pex full of anti-freeze with a small pump and quick connect fittings on either end, the tractor or truck then had the same kind of connections hooked up to the engine so you could pump 50 degree fluid from below the frost line in to the engine.
Wow, a ground source block heater!
Recently, I've also been thinking about how all the thermal energy in a car goes to waste once it gets parked. I've heard about people draining their oil and/or coolant and taking it home for the night, I've also heard stories about pouring boiling water over the engine or making a small fire under it (truck drivers in Russia). If the car gets used regularly, then insulating the engine bay, plus a coolant thermos a la gen 2 Prius, would be the best way to go, without the hassle of draining, connecting, etc.

But a car that doesn't drive regularly is more problematic. I think that draining/refilling would be a mess, especially if the drained fluid would be HOT.

As for heating by other means than an electric block heater, I remember there was a discussion over at EcoModder where someone proposed solar set-ups for heating the engine, but the general consensus was that it had a very unfavorable cost/complexity-to-gains ratio. Maybe if it was for a whole fleet of large trucks, but not one small car.
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Old 12-15-10, 06:04 AM   #3
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It sounds like a great idea. I certainly like it. But, I agree that it would be a bit complex to make happen.
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Old 12-15-10, 08:40 AM   #4
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I don't think the cost would be that great compared to a block heater and the cost of running a block heater, also when you get home you have 195F degree water in your engine block plus the mass of the engine being that warm.
The two largest costs that I see would be a small pump and a heat exchanger, plumb it all together with pex in the house.
I'll see if I can talk my co-homeowner in to letting me do this, but I don't think she will.
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Old 12-15-10, 09:10 AM   #5
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Hmm, I can imagine it being doable under a certain number of circumstances:
  • You have some kind of superinsulated heat buffer tank that can accept and store the heat,
  • You park in a garage next to that tank, or outside but in close proximity to the tank (through a wall), so there is minimal heat lose through hoses,
  • You can easily connect the buffer loop to the car's coolant loop, without getting air bubbles in,
  • You use a heat pump to suck the heat from the engine, bringing it down to ambient temperature, then reverse it to pump heat back from the buffer before the next drive.
If only every house/car was designed for this...
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Old 12-15-10, 11:51 AM   #6
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Default Industrial heat exchanger

What about an industrial heat exchanger?



Plumb to the hot water heater on the supply side and quick disconnects on the equipment side to the vehicle. Install check valve on the supply side of your WH. Insulate every thing as best as possible. This serves 2 purposes. Takes the heat off the vehicle in the evening (when you need it most) and warms your WH. In the AM turn on the pump (or put on timer) and preheat the vehicle.


Provides a closed loop system (health reasons).
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Old 12-15-10, 11:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
[*]You can easily connect the buffer loop to the car's coolant loop, without getting air bubbles in,[*]You use a heat pump to suck the heat from the engine, bringing it down to ambient temperature, then reverse it to pump heat back from the buffer before the next drive.[/LIST]If only every house/car was designed for this...
hydraulic hose quick connections have valves on both halves that don't open until after the seals are mated, they can also handle the pressure and I'm pretty sure the heat as hydraulics tend to get hot with heavy use.
I like the idea of the heat pump as you would then be able to cool the engine another 50F in the winter, or even in the summer! no reason not to cool it all until it's cold, but of course this would add more complexity to the system, my first idea seems like it could be built for $150 or so if you built your own heat exchanger and find a used pump.
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Old 12-16-10, 09:10 AM   #8
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Default Don't forget the thermostat

I was thinking more about this last night. You will loose your source when the cars thermostat closes as coolant drops below setpoint.
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Old 12-16-10, 09:14 AM   #9
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It shouldn't assuming you tap into the block and not the radiator hoses.
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Old 12-16-10, 09:20 AM   #10
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You will loose 1/2 of your source by not using the radiator also.

Another thought. You need a thermostat in your loop to shut the system down (cool down) when the temp of the coolant drops below your WH setpoint, otherwise you will be cooling your hot water.

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