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Old 10-30-11, 10:08 AM   #11
Xringer
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Hi Rex,
I just looked at some of your recent posts over on wind-sun. Wow, that's a big system!

Anyways, SSRs from China work the same as the SSRs I've used at work.
Bolt them down on some metal and they run pretty cool. I've never had one fail.

The current sensors aren't cheap, but you can find them on Ebay.
VERIS H735 CURRENT SENSOR/ RELAY HAWKEYE 735 | eBay

I just picked up a spare current sensor last week.

Have you seen IOTA auto-change-over relays??
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-...er-switch.html
I'm using some and they work nice. But, they are a bit slow when De-energizing.

I think a 240vac line can be switched much faster using four SSRs.
But, the DC control signals into the SSRs have to be very well controlled, and super reliable.
(To avoid a short).

I'm switching just one line of 240vac in my Sanyo #2 since it does not use any 120.. Just 240.
Two SSRs weren't necessary, to mimic the Sanyo power control relay setup.


~~~
I really like those Enphase inverters and I'm thinking of buying one or two,
M210 units to experiment with..

Cheers,
Rich

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Old 10-30-11, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
Hi Rex,
I just looked at some of your recent posts over on wind-sun. Wow, that's a big system!
I bought the largest that would fit on my south facing roof. It's an all electric house and I have an electric car. So I'll probably still end up paying for some electricity, but the gas money saved will easily cover it.

Quote:
Anyways, SSRs from China work the same as the SSRs I've used at work.
Bolt them down on some metal and they run pretty cool. I've never had one fail.
I have explored several ways of controlling the enphase inverters and SSRs seem to be the best. I finally bit the bullet and had the PV installer run 11 strings of 4 panels to an ac combiner panel. That will allow me to use AC SSRs more easily and avoids the DC side of the PV panels completely.

Quote:
The current sensors aren't cheap, but you can find them on Ebay.
I have plans to AC couple the micro inverters. The combination of the current sensor switch and the SSRs may work. Still waiting for the electric company to commission the system before I get to ambitious making changes.

Quote:
Have you seen IOTA auto-change-over relays??
You are way ahead me! I looked, briefly at ABT switches and was put off by the cost. These beauties are sending me back to re-evaluate my plans.

Thank you again!
Rex
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Old 10-30-11, 03:44 PM   #13
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Your projects are so ambitious! I gave up on my dream to get a hybrid.
And you went to a Full EV! Wow! That kinda move takes some guts.
(I still have an electric bike on my bucket list).

The problem with my IOTA switches is, they are 120vac, so I can't use them to
take my heat-pumps off the grid and use the solar backup system.
Just have to make sure I use UL listed SSRs..

Cheers,
Rich
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Old 10-30-11, 08:25 PM   #14
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Your projects are so ambitious! I gave up on my dream to get a hybrid.
I predict your next vehicle will be all electric. My wife and I have second car that is still gas

Before I start designing my control system, a question.
You said you are controlling the Sanyo 240VAC with an SSR in one leg of the 240VAC. Is that ok? Because that would lower the cost of controlling the 11 strings by 1/2!!

Regarding the IOTA switches, one leg of 240VAC is only 120VAC and normal 120VAC is 120VAC. So can you use 2 IOTA switches, one per leg? Or can you use one IOTA in one leg like you do with the SSR for Sanyo?
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Old 10-30-11, 09:04 PM   #15
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My EV is destined to be a bicycle, I'm thinking fount hub..

On the first auto-breaker, I used dual SSRs to completely disconnect the 240 from the Sanyo.
The hardware is all indoors.

But, when I wanted to install SSR control inside the #2 Sanyo system,
I saw they were only shutting off one side of the line.
Since they don't use 120 inside the unit (like my 240 laundry dryer), they don't need to use the Neutral line.
The unit is powered by two wires on terminal connections 5 & 6. The chassis ground is for safety.

~~~~
Since your Enphase power sources are need to be able to feed both 240 & 120 loads in your home, the Neutral line is a big deal.
And since you have it, you will need to disconnect Both sides of the 240 hots.

If you lived where they used only 240 loads in the house.. Maybe one side would work okay..

~~~

It seems like it would be easy to convert a 120 IODA to switch 240.
Just pull one side of the relay coil driver/timer off the line and connect it
to the Neutral. That would give the coil 120.. And it wouldn't melt..
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Old 10-30-11, 09:05 PM   #16
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You have a good DIY sense, hopefully you can help me lower the cost of my PV control system.

The goal is to have an automated control system that will:
1. When grid power is up:
1.a. All strings of PV panels connected to grid
2. When grid power is down and sun is up:
2.a. Measure house power consumption
2.b. Measure PV power production
2.c. Match the a & b by using:
2.c.1) adjustment of diversion load
2.c.2) turn on/off a string of PV panels and adjusting diversion load

A string of PV panels consists of 4 - M215 inverters with 244watt panels which should produce 860watts at 240vac.

I have looked at using SSRs with a commercial controller, it should work and it is expensive. That would be on top of the islanding inverter & batteries still needing to be purchased.
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Old 10-30-11, 09:33 PM   #17
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What is the diversion load going to be?
Tell me more about the 'islanding inverter' too please..

Last edited by Xringer; 10-30-11 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 10-30-11, 10:16 PM   #18
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What is the diversion load going to be?
Tell me more about the 'islanding inverter' too please..
Diversion load? Haven't decided yet. I think I need something variable upto about 1500watts. A hair dryer or something might work. That would balance almost 2 PV strings of power.

The islanding inverter I want use is the XW6048. Installation manual http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852577A4005D7372/all/9A19F733940214AA8525781F0070D57C/$File/xw-hybrid-inverter-charger_installation-guide(975-0239-01-01_rev-e).pdf
I think it will be big enough to supply my normal house loads. Especially if I can talk the wife into using the mini split A/C systems. Gonna be tough 'cause "they are ugly"! If it saves enough power/money I think it looks good, very good. The Leaf is gorgeous!!

The details aren't firm yet due to lack of power consumption data. I have Brultech energy monitoring system that I had installed prior to the PV system install. It got removed during the service entrance upgrade and I don't want to reinstall it until after the PV system has been commissioned. After I get enough info to make a good decision, I will move forward with the purchases.

There is a new inverter that just came out that I am evaluating as well. The Outback Radian GS8048 OutBack Power / Products / Sinewave Inverter / Radian

Last edited by RK_Solar_Hopeful; 10-30-11 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 10-31-11, 07:45 PM   #19
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Looks like you've got the Island hardware covered. (That's a big manual)!

If you want super efficiency heating and cooling (and don't live too far north),
use Inverter type Mini-split systems..

Sanyo #1


Sanyo #2


Give you an idea of how big these things are.. I'm 6' tall..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../10goofing.jpg


When we put #1 in, my wife had a LOT of reservations about how it would look.
But, she was super pleased by the system's performance.
Pretty soon, 'looks' weren't so important.

But, when I put in #2, the lines were out in the open. She didn't like the idea,
but the price of installing this unit was pretty low..

And the outdoor unit was an old repaired unit, just taking up space in the garage.
(On her side of the garage)!

It's been super warm in the house so far this winter.
The 2 systems together add up to 48,000 BTUh or 4 tons of cooling.
Under idea conditions, the max heating is 72k or 6 tons!

When they are running, about 460 watts from each unit will maintain the set-point (on the average winter day).
Unless it's really cold out, they will coast down to standby wattage (30 to 60w) after setpoint is hit.

So, if it's pretty cold, with no solar gain at all, and they both ran 24-7, using 1kw total,
24 kwh will run us about $5.19 cents a day or $155.70 per month. (My best guess)..

Which isn't too bad, unless you can get heating oil for a buck a gallon..

Since it's mild here in the summer, (compared to Texas) cooling cost us
much less. I figure August will run less than 5 kwh a day (average).. Peanuts.

Hey, I just remembered.. LQ has some neat looking picture-frame style IDUs..

Cheers,
Rich
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Old 11-01-11, 04:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Looks like you've got the Island hardware covered. (That's a big manual)!

If you want super efficiency heating and cooling (and don't live too far north), use Inverter type Mini-split systems..

When we put #1 in, my wife had a LOT of reservations about how it would look.
I live in AZ so I'm hoping the COOLING capacity will be enough. I was thinking of adding a mini split (#1) to the master bedroom to steady the temperatures. Right now the main A/C kicks on & off often enough to be bothersome. I plan to use an inverter mini split (I thought all mini splits were inverter type mini splits) to lower the cost of cooling the room. I might have to put it in and see if she notices...

The Islanding inverter will work, the issue is making the micro inverters work with it. I think I'm on the right track with using the SSRs and and Arduino controller. But I have not worked with an Arduino before, so there is the learning curve to climb. But I have to admit the DIY aspect is very enticing.

After #1 mini split is running comes #2...

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