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Old 04-19-14, 10:09 PM   #11
where2
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If a government official thinks I'm "rich" because I have a PV array on my roof, I'll gladly trade incomes with them. I'd love to see a government official and their spouse try to pull off living on what my wife and I (combined) made last year while paying property taxes, windstorm (hurricane) insurance, car insurance, health insurance, and all life's other expenses!

Why should I have to pay to add capacity for that new all electric Wendy's that needs 800A per phase? If my utility was run like anything other than a monopolistic business, the investors (stock holders) in the company would need to put up the capital to expand the capacity to serve more customers. My only options were to get propane gas at the house and a gas dryer, put a PV array on the roof, or put up a clothes line.

Next you'll tell me the government, the gas company and power company all want to tax clothes lines because they offset my propane or electric consumption?? Owners of clothes lines and gas dryers don't pay their fair share to add capacity to the grid or upkeep the grid.

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Old 04-19-14, 10:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcam84 View Post
Do you not have the digital meters in SC? Here (in Texas) they just remote reprogram the meter from the elec company.
In Florida, my power company came out with a completely different brand of digital "smart" meter and stuck it in my service entrance. The irony is it is incompatible with their existing smart meter infrastructure, so they have to drive out and manually read it every month!
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Old 04-20-14, 01:52 AM   #13
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I think it is generally human nature to take advantages that one has over others and take it as their god given right. For instance net metering is seen by most as their god given right, at least in the USA. On the surface it would seem only fair. However, like Steve Hull said, it does not take into account that the grid serves as a battery to the consumer when net metering is in effect. The sun does not shine at night and in most states PV does not generate enough electricity to serve a homes electrical needs in winter. These are just facts.

To make up for those facts one would need an enormous superlative battery backup system for ones house. I'm not talking about a battery system just to cover nightfall. I'm talking a battery system that in many locations, even here in California during rainy winter periods, that is sufficient to last two weeks of draw down and with little recharging. Again, just facts for most if not all locations in the USA.

This is not even accounting for the fact that with net metering you are having the shortfall from the winter months being completely counterbalanced by any surplus in spring, summer, and fall. This shortfall that on average is "months" long would take an even bigger equivalent home battery system to make up for.

Long story short: current net metering customers will pay a fortune in battery backup to get the same equivalent backup.It could easily cost $25,000 on the low end and $50,000 on the high end for current battery technology equivalent to net metering. And what is more, utilities do not have battery backup so you on net metering are getting a better deal than the utilities themselves are. I think what is really going on is you've been making out like thieves in regard to this fact and have simply taken it for granted. Now that there is some pushback it is being taken as an affront. It is always wise to simply step back when viewing a painting to get the totality of what is going on.
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Old 04-20-14, 08:01 AM   #14
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This kinda reminds me of what has happened with sales tax on Amazon purchases..

Item Subtotal: $67.99
Shipping & Handling: $0.00

Total Before Tax: $67.99
Estimated Tax: $4.25

Order Total: $72.24


I ordered this item (a BP monitor) yesterday, because we needed it yesterday.
It will be here on Monday. If we didn't have a serious need,
I would have shopped tax-free on Ebay and waited a week.

Since the sales tax started, I always compare prices.
Many times, it's been better on Ebay.. Just slower than Amazon Prime.

Is the sales tax going to hurt Amazon? I think it already has.
And, they have increased their Prime charge. I'm going to have to think
long and hard about renewal this summer..

Also looking at how useful all this cable TV stuff is...
I think the living room HD STB is going back to Verizon this summer..
We never use it.. It's not even plugged in to the AC..
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Old 04-20-14, 11:29 AM   #15
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There is an argument that distributed energy (DE) individuals just supply local customers, close by on the grid, when power is into the grid (net metering out) and that the grid really isn't being used at all.

The problem with that argument is that when power comes back IN to the DE customer (net metering in), it frankly comes from a power station somewhere remote. And now the grid IS being used.

You can't have it both ways . . . I get it.

The problem I have with Oklahoma is there is no and I mean NO support of DE in the state. I am hoping to put in about 10 kW of PV to offset home and farm and perhaps upgrade to supply and plug in hybrid/EV of some sort.

My coop does offer net metering now, I have the smart meter already here, have a huge barn roof with a almost due south exposure and the main electrical infrastructure for home/farm coming into that barn.

Now just the cash to get the 10 kW system (kids in college, etc). I got a turnkey quote from wholesalesolar.com (January, 2014) for about $17K (Enphase M215, Astroenergy 250 W poly panels, racking, cables, shipping, etc.).

I can taste it . . . . but have to wait a bit.


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Old 04-20-14, 03:17 PM   #16
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Frankly, I want to get in on net metering myself and hope it continues as it is here for a long time. All I was saying is if they modify it so it's less desirable I'm not going to tell everybody "I was robbed". Sort of like I'm not saying I was robbed when they started taxing internet purchases.
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Old 04-21-14, 08:34 AM   #17
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Countries are making very good progress accelerating solar about renewables have feed in tariffs.
Like Germany. Feed-in tariffs in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not saying we should do this but we sure don’t need new fees to put up road blocks on solar.

Net metering is good for solar and helps promote clean energy. The Fed Gov is giving 30% tax credit to promote solar.

Here in SC duke power you can pay more on your power bill to have some of that power come from solar. This is how they pay some people (sell all get 1099) more than retail for their solar power.

Their all kinds of ideas to keep clean energy flowing.

But since they limit solar to 1-2% per branch line they are not going to get over run with solar anytime soon.
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Old 04-21-14, 11:06 AM   #18
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I thought about the issues of using solar and wind with grid tie several years ago when the local 'REC' said there would be no problem putting a wind generator on the grid. I could roll the meter backwards to zero, but would not be given credit for any access power I put on the grid. Things have changed now. Credits are issued.

Oklahoma has some big corporations with big money and lots of lobbyists to look after their "needs". One of them is a major gas and energy producer. They are just looking after their own interests.

There are hundreds of large Vespa and GE wind turbines in the western part of Oklahoma and you may elect to buy RE from the large power company at an increased rate. Maybe that is a step in the right direction.

At any rate, I decided then to not put the power on the grid because of constant new regulations. All my RE power is not on grid, nor will it be. It is a 100% separate system. The tax man will still tax me on having the solar panels and equipment though.

If I was putting the power on the grid and using it basically as a storage battery, I wouldn't object too much. That saves a lot of time of maintaining batteries and the cost of them. I spend about two hours per month checking the SG and fluid levels. For me, that's tedious and I always have the threat of spilling battery acid. I'm always looking at the battery meter in the house.

Maybe I've helped to put things in perspective. There are good and bad to both sides. My choice was right for me but it's not for everyone. If you want a carefree system, then you have to pay the piper.
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Old 05-01-14, 11:37 PM   #19
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New member here. Name is Tommy.

Getting a 5.6 Kw system installed in the next month. I live in Oklahoma. And yes I know all about the backwards law that was passed as a way for the power companies to protect an antiquated billing model.

Some of you have posted that we solar babies are getting a free ride at the expense of other rate payers and I have to say that you could not be more incorrect.

If I produce more than I use, then I dump that excess back onto the grid. The Utility only has to buy back from me up to the full credit of my bill for that month. I still pay a minimum monthly amount that covers administration and what the utility has called "maintenance".

When I sell MORE than I use and that excess goes back to the grid, they are getting the amount above my total usage for absolutely nothing. They resell that to other customers.

If anything I am helping.

The power companies are mostly investor owned with a few COOPs in the rural areas.

I find it disgraceful for my state to encourage renewable energy....as long as I am buying it from the utility.

My civic gets 35 mpg. Should I have to pay more for a gallon of gasoline because I am practical and conscious of the environment?

This is nothing but another government sponsored money grab.

I do not care what you say to the contrary.

If they were truly interested in the rate payers, they would be partnering with us solar producers.

I intend to be off grid in 5 year. Full electric and AC.

I love the site.

Thanks

Tommy
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Old 05-01-14, 11:45 PM   #20
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We have at least one guy on here that does not have a Meter the OffGridGuy.
This is a good thing to shoot for.

Welcome to the solar producing clean energy producing. It is a rewarding place to be.

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