Winter fridge assist - using jugs of ice - Page 2

Daox · 01-06-11, 05:57 AM

I hooked up the kill a watt this morning. I think a week of testing is a good period.

zick · 01-13-11, 10:38 AM

Well, any results?

Daox · 01-13-11, 10:40 AM

Nope, not yet. I'm still gathering baseline data with the kill a watt. I'm going to be on vacation all next week so I'll just keep on gathering data with the kill a watt. Once I'm back I'll start using the jugs of ice.

Daox · 01-24-11, 06:39 PM

I've ended the first A leg (no ice) of the testing tonight. The data is:

19.7 kWh
444 hours / 18.5 days
1.06 kWh/day

I have now added two gallon jugs of ice to the refrigerator. The testing of the B leg has started.

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure they're going to do much. First off, I filled the jugs ~7/8 full of water and put them out last night. I checked them this morning and there was still an air bubble inside meaning it was not totally frozen. This means that over ~10 hours, it wasn't enough to freeze a gallon of water into ice at ~15F/-9.5C out. Now, my tap water is roughly 50F/10C, so the difference in temperature is 35F/19.5C. Once the ice is now in the fridge, the difference in temperature is going to be much smaller. I have my fridge set to 40F/4.4C for a difference of only 8F/4.5C while the ice phase changes into water. I will estimate that this will take roughly 4X as long since the difference in temperature is 4X smaller. So, basically I really need a lot more surface area to do much good. However, I will continue with the test to see if there are any measurable changes. In the mean time perhaps we can come up with a better idea.

Piwoslaw · 01-25-11, 01:18 AM

Smaller jugs, but more of them. Like four 2-quart jugs (I'm thinking of the tall skinny milk/juice jugs) should have roughly 50% more surface area. 2-liter soda bottles would be second best. I'm not sure what kind of containers you can easily get locally, but now that I thought about it, here I can find stuff in all sorts of sizes: 6 liters, 5 l, 3 l, 2.5 l, 2 l, 1.75 l, 1.5 l, 1.25 l, 1 l, 0.5 l. Oh, the miraculous plastics industry, tailored to my every need...

RobertSmalls · 01-25-11, 05:29 AM

Or just use a 24h cycle time.

Daox · 01-25-11, 06:09 AM

I can use a shorter cycle for sure, but would that be of much benefit? I would think I need more surface area so the ice can shed its cool faster.

strider3700 · 01-25-11, 06:25 PM

I'm still convinced you'll see a larger improvement due to effectively lowering the volume of the fridge by storing cool stuff in it then you will from transferring cold into the fridge. The only real way to tell will be to take your current readings and then just leave the jugs sitting in the fridge at fridge temps. It should use a little more power then the cold transfered in experiment but should still be an improvement over just having that space sit empty.

Daox · 01-25-11, 07:45 PM

I hope you are right, it would be great to see a good improvement from something so simple.

Piwoslaw · 01-26-11, 12:34 AM

So after the 'frozen jug' experiment maybe Daox should test his fridge with water jugs just sitting inside? That would then be easily compared to the empty fridge baseline and to the ice test.

Daox, when doing the ice test, is it possible to put the jugs on the top shelf? That's where it's warmest, so they'll soak up more heat.

BTW Where is it best to place water containers in an empty fridge? Top shelf, bottom shelf, middle, evenly distributed? At the bottom is where it's coldest, so if that space it taken up then the air that escapes when the door opens won't be as cold. But with water mass at the top, the cool will drop down to warm the displaced air after closing the door.

Our refrigerator has been mostly empty in the last few weeks (never more than 30%-40% full, but closer to 15%-20% most of the time). So I've put two 2-liter bottles in, but they hardly take up any room. Now I'm waiting for more containers to free up (kinda hard now that we've almost stopped drinking bottled water

).

01-06-11, 05:57 AM	#11
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I hooked up the kill a watt this morning. I think a week of testing is a good period. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-13-11, 10:40 AM	#13
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Nope, not yet. I'm still gathering baseline data with the kill a watt. I'm going to be on vacation all next week so I'll just keep on gathering data with the kill a watt. Once I'm back I'll start using the jugs of ice. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-24-11, 06:39 PM	#14
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I've ended the first A leg (no ice) of the testing tonight. The data is: 19.7 kWh 444 hours / 18.5 days 1.06 kWh/day I have now added two gallon jugs of ice to the refrigerator. The testing of the B leg has started. Unfortunately, I'm really not sure they're going to do much. First off, I filled the jugs ~7/8 full of water and put them out last night. I checked them this morning and there was still an air bubble inside meaning it was not totally frozen. This means that over ~10 hours, it wasn't enough to freeze a gallon of water into ice at ~15F/-9.5C out. Now, my tap water is roughly 50F/10C, so the difference in temperature is 35F/19.5C. Once the ice is now in the fridge, the difference in temperature is going to be much smaller. I have my fridge set to 40F/4.4C for a difference of only 8F/4.5C while the ice phase changes into water. I will estimate that this will take roughly 4X as long since the difference in temperature is 4X smaller. So, basically I really need a lot more surface area to do much good. However, I will continue with the test to see if there are any measurable changes. In the mean time perhaps we can come up with a better idea. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 01-25-11 at 07:25 AM.. Reason: add image

01-25-11, 01:18 AM	#15
Piwoslaw Super Moderator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Warsaw, Poland Posts: 961 Thanks: 188 Thanked 110 Times in 86 Posts	Smaller jugs, but more of them. Like four 2-quart jugs (I'm thinking of the tall skinny milk/juice jugs) should have roughly 50% more surface area. 2-liter soda bottles would be second best. I'm not sure what kind of containers you can easily get locally, but now that I thought about it, here I can find stuff in all sorts of sizes: 6 liters, 5 l, 3 l, 2.5 l, 2 l, 1.75 l, 1.5 l, 1.25 l, 1 l, 0.5 l. Oh, the miraculous plastics industry, tailored to my every need... __________________ Ecorenovation - the bottomless piggy bank that tries to tame the energy hog. Last edited by Piwoslaw; 01-25-11 at 01:26 AM..

01-25-11, 06:09 AM	#17
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I can use a shorter cycle for sure, but would that be of much benefit? I would think I need more surface area so the ice can shed its cool faster. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-13-11, 10:38 AM	#12
zick Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: WI Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Well, any results?

01-25-11, 05:29 AM	#16
RobertSmalls Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 344 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Or just use a 24h cycle time.

01-25-11, 06:25 PM	#18
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	I'm still convinced you'll see a larger improvement due to effectively lowering the volume of the fridge by storing cool stuff in it then you will from transferring cold into the fridge. The only real way to tell will be to take your current readings and then just leave the jugs sitting in the fridge at fridge temps. It should use a little more power then the cold transfered in experiment but should still be an improvement over just having that space sit empty.

01-25-11, 07:45 PM	#19
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I hope you are right, it would be great to see a good improvement from something so simple. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-26-11, 12:34 AM	#20
Piwoslaw Super Moderator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Warsaw, Poland Posts: 961 Thanks: 188 Thanked 110 Times in 86 Posts	So after the 'frozen jug' experiment maybe Daox should test his fridge with water jugs just sitting inside? That would then be easily compared to the empty fridge baseline and to the ice test. Daox, when doing the ice test, is it possible to put the jugs on the top shelf? That's where it's warmest, so they'll soak up more heat. BTW Where is it best to place water containers in an empty fridge? Top shelf, bottom shelf, middle, evenly distributed? At the bottom is where it's coldest, so if that space it taken up then the air that escapes when the door opens won't be as cold. But with water mass at the top, the cool will drop down to warm the displaced air after closing the door. Our refrigerator has been mostly empty in the last few weeks (never more than 30%-40% full, but closer to 15%-20% most of the time). So I've put two 2-liter bottles in, but they hardly take up any room. Now I'm waiting for more containers to free up (kinda hard now that we've almost stopped drinking bottled water). __________________ Ecorenovation - the bottomless piggy bank that tries to tame the energy hog. Last edited by Piwoslaw; 01-26-11 at 12:37 AM..