Prep work for some DIY solar panels

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:44 AM

hi all,

(I would like to post a pic, so will spam some posts into this thread)

here is some basic info about myself~

I live and work on a little island in Indonesia called Bali, some might know it as a tourist destination, others might only vaguely remember it being bombed... sadly we have had a bit of a run of trouble with being "terrorized" but life goes on, and things are back on track for the most part here. And in any case, for me, I call it home

However I am German (by nationality, but half Chinese half Italian by blood, and went to school in Western Australia, so basically, I say I am a citizen of Earth…

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:45 AM

quite a few years ago i actually did a PV course, on the principles and setup of a home or commercial setup, but it was so long ago that i dont remember that much of the course. instead i have been doing a lot of web research (aka... youtube) but also reading forums and article snippets.

in any case, this revival of solar interest is partially due because i am in the process of building my house at the moment (my own first home!)

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:46 AM

the coordinates are roughly: 8.6400° S, 115.1000° E

I just ran the solar chart program and came out with a graph that looks very different to what you would get further north or south, away from the equator. All the articles I have read say that the angle of the panels should be the latitude angle plus 5 – 15° (right?). would that be the same case for a location so close to the equator as Bali?

Anyhow, that is something I would have to worry about later. Because before I even get to that stage, I still need to build my solar panels. I plan to update the progress on it once I start.
I have ordered 200 mono-crystalline 6” x 6” 4.5w cells. I wanted to actually buy solar cells from the states, since there are several vendors selling these kits. But transferring the money was a little hassle, shipping was a little expensive ($60 for 40 pcs 3x6inch from USA with UPSP, compared to $80 for 200 cells by DHL from china). On top of it, the Chinese supplier agreed to reduce the value of the invoice, which American vendors would never do, he he… I need that, because importing goods by post/courier into this country gets charged around 50%!! And that just does not help me in my goal to try and keep the price down.

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:47 AM

Currently my order consists of:

• 200 cells (IF im lucky and I only break 20 cells… kinda doubt it… but IF I do, I can make 5 panels) with a rated 800w output!
• Lots of tabbing wire, these are 3BB cells, so im going to need 36” of tabbing per cell, and enough bus wires to link it all up.
• 5 Rosin flux pens
• 5 junction boxes (160-200w)
• 10 diodes
• 10 pairs of MC4 connectors
• 4 pairs of T-Branch MC4 connectors

All for just under $700

Eh… so I went and got the money transferred by online banking, because I am currently out of the country, and it just had to happen, typod the supplier company name. ha ha… now im trying to resolve the issue with my bank and hopefully they can amend the typo without me having to physically sign an amendment slip at the bank. Off to a smooth start…

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:48 AM

I plan to get aluminum framing for the solar panels, and tempered glass. I have a lot of spare 6mm (¼ inch) that I could cut down to size, and have it processed to temper (costs about $8 per sqm, plus shipping) in any case, that would be quite cheap. But, seeing that this is regular float-glass which has that slight greenish tint… would it be better to use 4mm (1/6th inch) thick glass? I am also looking into low iron glass, or what they call crystal glass over here, but from experience, that costs way more than regular glass, and way way more than just having to temper some glass that I already have.

Would I loose a lot by using 6mm glass compared to 4mm? does it make a very big difference between regular glass and crystal glass? i will need a piece about 1480 x 670 mm (58” x 26”) if I do four rows of 9 cells, which comes out to be almost exactly 1 square meter.

Glass price breakdown:

• Temper 1 sqm of my own 6mm glass = $7.50 (plus a little for shipping)
• Buy new 6mm regular tempered glass = $26.00
• Buy new 6mm Crystal galss = $45.00
• Buy new 4mm regular tempered glass = $17.50

My reasoning now would go as follows; getting new regular 6mm tempered glass is pointless, might as well temper the glass I already have for almost a quarter of the price. Getting the crystal glass is out of the question, I could almost make half a panel worth of solar cells for that price (I cant imagine the difference between regular glass and crystal glass would give me an increase of anywhere close to 50%....

Last option, which is a little more tempting is to get the new 4mm tempered glass which would cost $17, which isn’t going to break the bank… and it could in theory help increase the output a little because the sun doesn’t have to penetrate through 6mm glass.

So a question to everyone out there… would you suggest I go cheapooo and and just get my own glass tempered, or buy some new thinner, and lighter 4mm tempered glass?

We don’t have hailstorms in bali (well it did happen once actually, really strange, but they were bb bullet sized hail). And I think ill be placing the panels up on the roof where it should be safe from any flying debris…

Alu framing wont be an issue to get I think, just need to go and look around for the most suitable profile/size.

All the rest: charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc etc… will be down the line, this first task will be to build these solar panels!

Cheers,
W.

Wayan · 11-22-12, 02:55 AM

thats the sunchart for my location

Daox · 11-22-12, 07:58 AM

Welcome to the site Wayan. It sounds like you have an ambitious project on your hands.

I'm no expert in solar panels, so I'l allow others to reply on most topics. One thing I think is recommended is once the panel is assembled, to pour a resin or epoxy around the cells to seal it. Apparently they will oxidize over time and their output will be reduced. To what degree I am not sure though.

Wayan · 11-22-12, 08:58 AM

i think... i plan to follow this for encapsulation:

$1 A WATT DIY SOLAR PANEL part 3 Encapsulation Resin Overview Wood Frame "Top DIY Solar Panels" - YouTube

to get the resin that is specially made for solar panels (sylguard) would be hard (or impossible rather) in bali, and too expensive to import, since the product isnt cheap to start with.

using eva to encapsulate looks like an attractive solution also, but again it would require to get imported, since i cant imagine that its available in indonesia. could order it from china as well i guess, but then id be worried to botch it up with the vacuum and heat-gun, etc... but that is in theory also doable (as proven by many youtube vids).

so ive decided to go with Dan Rojas's encapsulation method, it seems to be effective, and i would avoid getting resin between the solar cells and glass by sealing the gaps up with tape. and having resin between the cell and glass would lead to the resin getting yellowish, and reducing the amount of light coming through. this way i am hoping that (as long as there is minimal humidity trapped in...) that i can get away with a good seal, and wont need to worry about the resin going murky.

i am really anxious to get the cells when the time comes, and pray that they were packed properly and that DHL handled the box "delicately" enough to avoid any from breaking. since these aren't the cheapo 3x6" cells... each one counts, ha ha... oh, and i need as many spare cells as possible, since im basically guaranteed to break some i would assume.

im really hoping i can pull off five panels, but i actually bought these cells with the intention to make four tbh.

Wayan · 11-23-12, 12:30 AM

i got a quote for $120 for 20 meters (about 20 yards) of EVA... i am sort of tempted to try it out, but it seems to be tricky to get it done properly without a proper vacuum/oven setup. i see a lot of youtube videos where they do DIY EVA encapsulation, and there are often noticeable bubbles, or the EVA + cells arent fused to the glass...

hmmm..... just looked at ebay prices for eva, one vendor was selling it for arounf $25 a sqm, not sure if that is one or two laters worth.... but 20 meters of the eva from china (68cm wide) comes out to be a little under $9 per sqm.

thats a lot cheaper...

i am also wondering if i it would cost me less, same or more by using epoxy to encapsulate... main issue is actually the technique of encapsulation, im not very confident that i can get it done as nicely as i would like to be (with EVA), lol...

Wayan · 11-23-12, 09:28 AM

thanx to Xringer, i downloaded the orbitron program and had a better look at the suns orbit from my location.

on DEC 21st the suns elevation is 68.9 degrees to the south at noon
on June 21st the suns elevation is 57.5 degrees to the north, at noon

i think i am supposed to get the noon elevation... not sure, but those are the two maximum positions.

the sun basically sweeps over us between the summer and winter seasons, in November, and again in February, the sun is right on top of us at 90 degrees at noon.

would almost be best to have these panels sitting FLAT on the roof... but that would build up dirt, etc. i think i read it should be tilted at least 10 degrees to allow the rainwater to go off, and wash away dirt, etc.

11-22-12, 02:44 AM	#1
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Prep work for some DIY solar panels hi all, (I would like to post a pic, so will spam some posts into this thread) here is some basic info about myself~ I live and work on a little island in Indonesia called Bali, some might know it as a tourist destination, others might only vaguely remember it being bombed... sadly we have had a bit of a run of trouble with being "terrorized" but life goes on, and things are back on track for the most part here. And in any case, for me, I call it home However I am German (by nationality, but half Chinese half Italian by blood, and went to school in Western Australia, so basically, I say I am a citizen of Earth…

11-22-12, 07:58 AM	#7
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Welcome to the site Wayan. It sounds like you have an ambitious project on your hands. I'm no expert in solar panels, so I'l allow others to reply on most topics. One thing I think is recommended is once the panel is assembled, to pour a resin or epoxy around the cells to seal it. Apparently they will oxidize over time and their output will be reduced. To what degree I am not sure though. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-23-12, 12:30 AM	#9
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i got a quote for $120 for 20 meters (about 20 yards) of EVA... i am sort of tempted to try it out, but it seems to be tricky to get it done properly without a proper vacuum/oven setup. i see a lot of youtube videos where they do DIY EVA encapsulation, and there are often noticeable bubbles, or the EVA + cells arent fused to the glass... hmmm..... just looked at ebay prices for eva, one vendor was selling it for arounf $25 a sqm, not sure if that is one or two laters worth.... but 20 meters of the eva from china (68cm wide) comes out to be a little under $9 per sqm. thats a lot cheaper... i am also wondering if i it would cost me less, same or more by using epoxy to encapsulate... main issue is actually the technique of encapsulation, im not very confident that i can get it done as nicely as i would like to be (with EVA), lol... Last edited by Wayan; 11-23-12 at 01:21 AM..

11-22-12, 02:45 AM	#2
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	quite a few years ago i actually did a PV course, on the principles and setup of a home or commercial setup, but it was so long ago that i dont remember that much of the course. instead i have been doing a lot of web research (aka... youtube) but also reading forums and article snippets. in any case, this revival of solar interest is partially due because i am in the process of building my house at the moment (my own first home!)

11-22-12, 02:46 AM	#3
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the coordinates are roughly: 8.6400° S, 115.1000° E I just ran the solar chart program and came out with a graph that looks very different to what you would get further north or south, away from the equator. All the articles I have read say that the angle of the panels should be the latitude angle plus 5 – 15° (right?). would that be the same case for a location so close to the equator as Bali? Anyhow, that is something I would have to worry about later. Because before I even get to that stage, I still need to build my solar panels. I plan to update the progress on it once I start. I have ordered 200 mono-crystalline 6” x 6” 4.5w cells. I wanted to actually buy solar cells from the states, since there are several vendors selling these kits. But transferring the money was a little hassle, shipping was a little expensive ($60 for 40 pcs 3x6inch from USA with UPSP, compared to $80 for 200 cells by DHL from china). On top of it, the Chinese supplier agreed to reduce the value of the invoice, which American vendors would never do, he he… I need that, because importing goods by post/courier into this country gets charged around 50%!! And that just does not help me in my goal to try and keep the price down.

11-22-12, 02:47 AM	#4
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Currently my order consists of: • 200 cells (IF im lucky and I only break 20 cells… kinda doubt it… but IF I do, I can make 5 panels) with a rated 800w output! • Lots of tabbing wire, these are 3BB cells, so im going to need 36” of tabbing per cell, and enough bus wires to link it all up. • 5 Rosin flux pens • 5 junction boxes (160-200w) • 10 diodes • 10 pairs of MC4 connectors • 4 pairs of T-Branch MC4 connectors All for just under $700 Eh… so I went and got the money transferred by online banking, because I am currently out of the country, and it just had to happen, typod the supplier company name. ha ha… now im trying to resolve the issue with my bank and hopefully they can amend the typo without me having to physically sign an amendment slip at the bank. Off to a smooth start…

11-22-12, 02:48 AM	#5
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I plan to get aluminum framing for the solar panels, and tempered glass. I have a lot of spare 6mm (¼ inch) that I could cut down to size, and have it processed to temper (costs about $8 per sqm, plus shipping) in any case, that would be quite cheap. But, seeing that this is regular float-glass which has that slight greenish tint… would it be better to use 4mm (1/6th inch) thick glass? I am also looking into low iron glass, or what they call crystal glass over here, but from experience, that costs way more than regular glass, and way way more than just having to temper some glass that I already have. Would I loose a lot by using 6mm glass compared to 4mm? does it make a very big difference between regular glass and crystal glass? i will need a piece about 1480 x 670 mm (58” x 26”) if I do four rows of 9 cells, which comes out to be almost exactly 1 square meter. Glass price breakdown: • Temper 1 sqm of my own 6mm glass = $7.50 (plus a little for shipping) • Buy new 6mm regular tempered glass = $26.00 • Buy new 6mm Crystal galss = $45.00 • Buy new 4mm regular tempered glass = $17.50 My reasoning now would go as follows; getting new regular 6mm tempered glass is pointless, might as well temper the glass I already have for almost a quarter of the price. Getting the crystal glass is out of the question, I could almost make half a panel worth of solar cells for that price (I cant imagine the difference between regular glass and crystal glass would give me an increase of anywhere close to 50%.... Last option, which is a little more tempting is to get the new 4mm tempered glass which would cost $17, which isn’t going to break the bank… and it could in theory help increase the output a little because the sun doesn’t have to penetrate through 6mm glass. So a question to everyone out there… would you suggest I go cheapooo and and just get my own glass tempered, or buy some new thinner, and lighter 4mm tempered glass? We don’t have hailstorms in bali (well it did happen once actually, really strange, but they were bb bullet sized hail). And I think ill be placing the panels up on the roof where it should be safe from any flying debris… Alu framing wont be an issue to get I think, just need to go and look around for the most suitable profile/size. All the rest: charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc etc… will be down the line, this first task will be to build these solar panels! Cheers, W.

11-22-12, 02:55 AM	#6
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thats the sunchart for my location

11-22-12, 08:58 AM	#8
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i think... i plan to follow this for encapsulation: $1 A WATT DIY SOLAR PANEL part 3 Encapsulation Resin Overview Wood Frame "Top DIY Solar Panels" - YouTube to get the resin that is specially made for solar panels (sylguard) would be hard (or impossible rather) in bali, and too expensive to import, since the product isnt cheap to start with. using eva to encapsulate looks like an attractive solution also, but again it would require to get imported, since i cant imagine that its available in indonesia. could order it from china as well i guess, but then id be worried to botch it up with the vacuum and heat-gun, etc... but that is in theory also doable (as proven by many youtube vids). so ive decided to go with Dan Rojas's encapsulation method, it seems to be effective, and i would avoid getting resin between the solar cells and glass by sealing the gaps up with tape. and having resin between the cell and glass would lead to the resin getting yellowish, and reducing the amount of light coming through. this way i am hoping that (as long as there is minimal humidity trapped in...) that i can get away with a good seal, and wont need to worry about the resin going murky. i am really anxious to get the cells when the time comes, and pray that they were packed properly and that DHL handled the box "delicately" enough to avoid any from breaking. since these aren't the cheapo 3x6" cells... each one counts, ha ha... oh, and i need as many spare cells as possible, since im basically guaranteed to break some i would assume. im really hoping i can pull off five panels, but i actually bought these cells with the intention to make four tbh.

11-23-12, 09:28 AM	#10
Wayan Lurking Renovator Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Bali Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanx to Xringer, i downloaded the orbitron program and had a better look at the suns orbit from my location. on DEC 21st the suns elevation is 68.9 degrees to the south at noon on June 21st the suns elevation is 57.5 degrees to the north, at noon i think i am supposed to get the noon elevation... not sure, but those are the two maximum positions. the sun basically sweeps over us between the summer and winter seasons, in November, and again in February, the sun is right on top of us at 90 degrees at noon. would almost be best to have these panels sitting FLAT on the roof... but that would build up dirt, etc. i think i read it should be tilted at least 10 degrees to allow the rainwater to go off, and wash away dirt, etc.