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#11 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
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![]() Mikesolar,
Ordinary, gas station cylinder exchange propane works just fine as well as being cheaper than the small bottles of torch or camping gas. The main issue is getting the mercaptan "stench oil" out of the propane. For added insurance, you should have some sort of filter-drier in your liquid line as well. I am stumped as to the claims being made on the petroleum industry and their so-called lack of quality. Non-spec "commercial grade" propane is not sold to the public. It has been deliberately formulated for the customer it is being sold to. The plastics industry uses ethane/propane blends, while the welding gas industry uses propane/propylene blends. The petrochemical companies make good money separating all these gases from each other and blending them back together. Just look at the refrigeration industry! |
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#12 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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Nothing right now has a higher price than R22 execpt R12! R22 cost is $485 per drum. I am not shooting to get the rock bottem price here! I want a refrigerant grade gas. As little as 5% mixture of a seperate gas can skew a compressor test this is why BBQ gas will not work for what i want to do! I have a refrigerant reclaimer I can run the BBQ gas through and remove all the moisture trash ect, but i will still have mixed gases! If HC refrigerants are ever to be approved for high temp use, traceable studys will need to be done to get people on board. I have orderd a drum of HC22-A from ES and picked up a test kit from united refrigeration. I will send in a sample to be tested and get a brakedown of what is in the gas, i am also going to send in a sample of BBQ gas for compairson. I will post both reports when I get them back! |
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#13 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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HD-5 Propane HD5 grade propane is "consumer grade" propane and is the most widely sold and distributed grade of propane in the U.S. market. HD5 is the highest grade propane available to consumers in the United States and is what propane companies ordinarily sell to their customers. What does HD5 propane mean in terms of specification to an ordinary consumer? It means that the propane is suitable and recommended for engine fuel use, which was the original purpose of the HD5 grade propane specification. HD5 spec propane consists of: Minimum of 90% propane Maximum of 5% propylene - propylene is used in the manufacture of plastics Other gases constitute the remainder (iso-butane, butane, methane, etc.) |
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#14 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
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![]() AtomTrauner,
I apologize if I sound as if I'm trying to run you down. I'm glad we could help you find a reliable source of R290. As time passes, I hope the HVAC/R industry will come to accept natural refrigerants in general. As of now, there are only a handful of consumer products worldwide that use R290, so there is very little demand for service products. Good luck with your testing! I hope all goes well. I look forward to hearing back from you with results, especially your findings on common LPG. |
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#15 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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I am putting a bit more into this project as I do own a Mechanical Service, I dont want people to say yea he is the one that will sell you some thing to blow your house up. I dont plan on selling the system I am looking to use it as a proof of concept! My plans for this is to charge a 2ton DX system with R22 and run system efficacy test, charge the same system with some of the R22 replacements and run efficacy test and finaly charge with the R290 and run test. I plan to post all results of this on my website so others can see a true side by side compairson in the same system. I will most likely run the DX system indoors so it will be in controled enviroment and no one can make claims of outdoor conditions skewing things. If what i have read online turns true, the HC should come out on top. The next stage is going to be making a chiller with the 2Ton system. I have orderd a 2.0Ton coaxal heat exchanger. I will place the controls in a class 1 div 2 box and replace the condenser fan motor with a TEFC exp proof motor. from the chiller ethylene glycol will be pumped into two 18,000 btu fan coil units, one for my bedroom and the other for my office. This setup will yeild no HC gas getting pumped into the house. And like the ceo of hairclub for men, not only am I the ceo I am also a member ![]() I will post autocad drawings of the system as i work it out. AT |
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The Following User Says Thank You to AtomTrainer For This Useful Post: | elhigh (02-28-13) |
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#16 |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
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![]() Why not propylene glycol? Ethylene is way too deadly and is losing market share to propylene and if it is USP grade, a single wall HX is OK in most places. Not so with ethylene, double wall is needed.
I'd be very interested in the results. |
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#17 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
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![]() AtomTrainer,
Sounds like an awesome plan! I believe you will find that propane works well in a system designed for R-22. However, it doesn't behave exactly the same as R-22, so a little tweaking is needed to get what you want out of the system. Since you will be using REAL r-290, your test results would be very valuable to this forum. Those of us running BBQ grill gas in comparable systems would have a benchmark, so to speak. |
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#18 | |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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I think PG will be used, If my Tim Allen toy "as the wife has named this project" were to spring a leak and one of the pets ingested the ethylene myself and the cat will most likely get to meet the maker. @ |
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#19 | |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
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#20 |
Lurking Renovator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Artic Circle
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
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![]() I am wondering why this r290 is so favoured before ... r1270?
This "R1270" you can buy from your local milk store (in US/Canada) ... I presume. It is also called MAP//PRO-gas . Bullfinch Gas - 399g MAP//Pro gas disposable cylinder Purity 99,5% (balance propane).See below ... http://www.jula.se/media/pdf/product...o,%20R!MAC.pdf Impurities acc. to European standard: R1270 - Propylene-Propene-C3H6 Intergas International Gases and Chemicals Limited R290 - Propane-C3H8 Intergas International Gases and Chemicals Limited There is odour (<50ppm) and some moisture (?) left in the MAP-gas. If you build up a system of your own ,you surely install a dryer (alumina/zeolite) in your widget swallowing easily the possible impurities below 10ppm(weight). The challenging task is to find an adaptor linking your gas-bottle into your ... mini-split service valve. Any ideas ... which COLEMAN- adaptor most ok(?) for tapping the gas/liquid into a hose-adaptor linked with mini-split . Any help/ideas to be giving from forum rgd. the adaptor -hose-adaptor lay-out? https://www.google.fi/search?q=colem...w=1252&bih=683 2NEW R410A Manifold Port Flow Control Adapters Hand Valve 1 4x5 16"FFL HVAC Tool | eBay The AHRI-standard does not recognize the HC-refigerants ... is this really true? AHRI |
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