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Old 12-01-10, 07:26 PM   #1
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Default High efficacy standard form factor LEDs

I'm making a new thread on this because all of the other threads on low cost LEDs or LEDs people found that aren't up to the task of lighting with as much light as we really need. ...either that or they weren't actually more efficient than CFLs.

This is what I did:
I went to the DOE's website which was set up specifically for posting their verified results of LED lamps(or bulbs as most people call them).
LightingFacts.com
When you click on Products, you can do an advanced search and type in your lumens needs and the desired efficacy.

I entered in 800-5000 lumens and 80+ lumens/watt

The mid 800's is usually what a 60 watt equiv CFL is.
1640 lumens are what my 100 watt equivalent CFLs are.

Most of the fixtures in my house are rated for 60 watts and so they have 60 watt bulbs inside when I bought my house. I find 60 watts to be acceptable but when buying CFLs, you always need to upsize them by one or two steps. I've been using flourescents with an edison base before they were even compact and there are good reasons for upsizing the 'equivalent wattage'. The manufacturers want you to think you are saving more money or their product is more efficient through the 'oh look, this 60 watt equivalent only uses 11 watts, while this other one uses 13' with no regards to lumens. I've always taken the wattage of the CFL multiplied it by 3 and used that number for my calculations. So basically 23 watts = 69 watts to me. So in my case they are slightly brighter than the originals and the warm up period is harder to notice because they don't start off as dim. CFLs also, in my experience get dimmer with age. I have CFLs from the mid 90's that still work today, they are without a doubt over their 12,000 hour rated lifespan but they aren't being used because they are huge, ugly, don't fit in any of todays modern fixtures, and after probably about 20,000 hours of use they are very dim. Kudos to GE for making their 15 watt double long-U shape bulbs last nearly forever! ...but I just can't use them because they produce less light than even a 40 watt lightbulb can now and they always had a greenish tinge that none of the current CFLs have anymore. Putting it side by side with a new 13 watt bulb puts the thing to shame.

Anyway, back to LEDs.

1. LEDs don't have the CFL 3 minute warm up period(which I've tested by taking 4 and screwing them into a fixture at a one minute interval and seen where they met at maximum brightness versus time and determined that it takes 3 minutes. So I have less reason to oversize them to burn through the reason of why these suck for the bathroom, closet, and anywhere else I spend a short period of time in.

2. LEDs last a very long time, manufacturers are rating them at 50,000 hours, with some cheaper ones at 25,000 hours. I have an LED that specifically says on the box if it doesn't last that long that they will replace it. I've had CFLs replaced under such a guarantee before.

3. They potentially have a much higher efficacy(light per watt)

4. Their light based on an LED lamp I just recent bought seems to be a better quality light than the recent CFLs I've been using, which are pretty good on their own in the first place.

5. No mercury

6. Most are dimmable, which is something I have no use for since I size my lighting for what I need. ...but what is good about this is they can be used with solid state switches controlled by PWM. My garage door opener specifically says to use nothing but incandescents and the control and rough service is why, I think an LED bulb might be great for it.


The problem:
They are expensive and many are less efficient than CFLs. They also don't have a large selection available for larger ones too.

For example
I bought an 8 watt 40 watt equiv to test. Spent about $20 on it. It's 430 lumens, 54lm/watt(lower than my ~70lm/watt CFLs). It's brighter when shining against my hand than the two 60 watt tungsten bulbs next to it because all of the light from the LED points down. This is great for something that points down but for room lighting most of my lights use the light reflected from walls so it would all end up even to the lumen count.

What I found though when searching the Lighting Facts site was a bulb by LEDnovation that gets 101lm/watt.

LEDnovation, LED Lamps, LED Light Bulbs | Products - EnhanceLite A19 LED

6.1 watts, 615 lumens, 101lm/watt in a 2700k warm white A19 shaped bulb.
That is a very high lm/watt although slightly lower lumens then I want.

They have higher powered bulbs at slightly lower efficacy but better than CFL efficiency in the A19 package. For 84lm/watt, I could have a 9.8 watt bulb that puts out 830 lumens, an efficacy of 84 lumens per watt. My best CFL in the house is 71 lm/watt.

830 lumens would be around the same as a 60 watt tungsten bulb. They are selling it as a 100 watt replacement though. It would be less than I'm getting from my fluorescents but the semi-directional aspect and instant-on would be perfect for me and may seem brighter than an actual 60 watt tungsten bulb anyway.

I should also mention, when doing a google search of one of the part numbers on the bulb, I found a PDF that shows their Gen 2 line, which solely includes the 101lm/watt unit will be expanding with additional units that will produce more light.

I'm going to try calling these guys tomorrow if I'm available and ask about where/how/if they can be bought by an individual and at what price along with what is coming.

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Old 12-02-10, 11:23 PM   #2
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Remember that a CFL that has say a 15 watt label on it does not draw 15 watts but instead draws closer to 23 watts, plug it in to a kill-a-watt meter and see for your self, then look very closely at the base of the CFL and you will almost always find a amp rating, multiply the amp rating by 120 volts and you will get a higher wattage then it should be.
LED's do not have this labeling issue.
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Old 12-03-10, 09:42 AM   #3
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Ryland, I have not experienced what you describe. I normally see a compact fluorescent slowly ramp up its wattage usage until they reach maximum brightness, which is about 3 minutes when I'm paying attention to it but I'm not seeing wattage beyond its ratings. Also, I have never measured the voltage of my house to be at 120 volts either. I'm typically seeing 114 through about 117 when I've checked.

The mA value you see on the fluorescent lamp could involve the inrush that comes with the initial emissive spike involved to get the mercury active. I have a unit next to me labeled with 120v 380mA which is 45.6 watts. In reality it consumes half that, it is a 23w rated unit.
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Old 12-03-10, 05:21 PM   #4
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My testing also disagrees with Ryland's.
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Old 12-03-10, 06:53 PM   #5
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Ryland, is it possible you're just using older bulbs? My kill a watts also measure near exactly what the bulbs say they are supposed to draw. They are roughly 3 years old and I believe are energy star rated. I know this makes a difference as far as startup performance and I can't imagine they'd let the mfgs lie on their packaging.
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Old 12-04-10, 03:22 PM   #6
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I've checked bulbs that were nearly 10 years old and bulbs that were just bought, I think I've checked 15 or so bulbs in total of different brands and sizes on two different kill-a-watt meters.
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Old 12-11-10, 12:36 AM   #7
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Hi, I'm new to the board.
I use LEDs everytime I can. I use them for reading lights and vehicle caution lights. The yellow and red LEDs on the vehicles can be seen clearly for 350 feet+. In both applications, I've had no burnouts and have been using them for almost a year.
I buy mine from Sure Electronics. They have their own website as well as on EBAY.
Their newest is a "High Power 10W White LED with Heatsink 400lm 1.6A" They also have 5 and 1 watt units plus the driver boards for them. I use wall wort switch mode type power supplies indoors and they work well.

Since LED's put more of their power into light, there is less heat to deal with.

Last edited by philb; 12-11-10 at 12:39 AM..
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Old 12-11-10, 06:42 AM   #8
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This LEDNovation lamp is really neat, and it's perhaps the first one I've seen that offers a substantial efficacy advantage over CFL. However, all their bulbs so far are highly directional for recessed fixtures. Not good for general lighting. You'd think it would be easy to adapt the technology for general lighting applications, but I guess they haven't done so yet.

The other, bigger, problem with the LEDNovation lamps is that they're not for sale anywhere that I can find. LEDNovation doesn't run a retail shop, and I can't find their products anywhere. MN, did you find out anything about availability on the phone or e-mail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philb View Post
"High Power 10W White LED with Heatsink 400lm 1.6A"
Hi, Phil, and welcome to the board. Sorry to disagree with your first post, but that's not a high efficacy bulb. At 40lm/W (even before the inefficient 120VAC->12VDC conversion), it underperforms CFL's by a wide margin.
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Old 12-11-10, 10:20 AM   #9
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It's OK to disagree, IMHO. No offense taken Robert.

Popular Mechanics has an article that discusses the possible replacement of incandescent and CFLs with LEDs. I don't regard PM as a primary paper, but they have some interesting thoughts. It's the August 2010 edition, I think.

I have not seen the LEDnovation bulbs either. I have to wonder if they even exist yet. If the LED manufacturers don't make the LEDs... I'm skeptical. I'd also like to see independent tests.

I saw this tactic used by a new wind turbine company last year. An entire 5 story office building is being built to accomodate several of these new turbines. I called them and asked for specifications. They had none. Beautiful brochure though. How many do you have in the field? none. Where are your prototypes? prototypes?? what's that?

CFL's have 50 to 70 lumens per watt.The new Luxeon LED bulbs have 400 lumens per watt. [edit, yes, I am mistaken. The 3 watt unit produces 180 lumens according to EBAY's topbright88]. Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly? The 5 and 10 watt bulbs are so new, they are not appearing in products that I've seen anyway. LED technology is still in its infancy. There is mucho scrutiny to undergo.


BTW, I'm still getting used to this posting software. It has wiped out several of my post responses. So bear with me.

Last edited by philb; 12-11-10 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: incorrect information
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Old 12-27-10, 01:54 PM   #10
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Hi Everyone,

I thought I would chime in on this thread as I work for LEDnovation and wanted to give everyone information on product availability, what's next and where you can buy our products.

First off - our lamps do exist and are the most efficient LED lamps on the market to date. We currently offer directional A19 solutions designed specifically for downlight cans and also PAR20, PAR30, PAR38 and MR16 lamps. We just launched the 101 lm/W A19 lamp on November 30th and plan on releasing additional lamps in 2011 that will feature more lumen output in the current form factor and also an omni-directional lamp.

We currently target commercial users with our products and sell via distribution. We also have regional sales managers that can answer any questions you may have and give you information on where to buy. Please visit the contact page on our website and look up a Regional Sales Manager in your area (sorry can't post a link since I need 5 or more posts to do so).

I hope this information helps.

Sincerely,

Michael Eckert
Director of Marketing | LEDnovation, Inc.

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