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Old 04-09-14, 02:05 PM   #21
Exeric
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Discussions of this type that start out with a tentative issue are basically political rants that are concealed behind arguments that are designed to elevate peoples emotions. I basically agree with AC hacker almost completely. Follow the money.

Government is supposed to represent us. In fact it IS us in the collective sense. If it doesn't serve our needs it is because certain interest groups, read that as groups that want to make government serve their monetary interests, have gained too much power. The people who benefit most monetarily are not low level or medium level government employees. It is corporate interests who have the money to shape laws and to funnel money to top level government employees.

To reiterate what happened in California. We had meat and potatoes electric and gas utilities in California before the late 1990s. Then we got it in our head that complete deregulation would unleash the power of competition to improve service and lower prices. Almost instantaneously Enron manufactured power shortages that they disguised as routine maintenance for the rubes that were gullible. Prices during those event cost our local utilites triple, quadruple, and more. To those that say all regulation is bad I say to you: you are naive.

Yes poor regulations are out there. But they aren't the result of all government being bad. It is usually the result of some people at top levels in individual government agencies being too closely tied to corporate interests.

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Old 04-09-14, 09:35 PM   #22
AC_Hacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecomodded View Post
...we have many many collectors and gun enthusiasts , Yet we hardly have a murder rate...
Now there's something worth discussion.

-AC
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I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
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Old 04-10-14, 08:11 AM   #23
Ryland
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I have been around people who live off grid and have different life styles my whole life and the examples that have been given of it being "illegal" tend to be someone doing something stupid that drew attention to them selves then someone asked if they had gotten a building permit.
The exception to this is the few states that have restrictions or bans on collecting rain water, most states do not have bans on collecting rain water, most cities have bans on dumping rain water down the sewer system where you have to pay to have to treated.

Bottom line is don't do things that are stupid and illegal at the same time!
When I was younger I knew a few people who drove without drivers licenses, one guy was always getting caught because he wouldn't stop at stop signs and he didn't want to fix his muffler, someone else who never got caught said they always make sure their tail lights work and never speed.

If you are going to have a life style that draws attention, make sure that it is safe and legal, if you want to do things that are not legal then it's your own fault for drawing attention to your self!
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Old 04-10-14, 10:38 PM   #24
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I agree with your sentiment Ryland.
I do hope those exposed for their out dated misdoings as it would be, help bring the country into the 21st century when old laws get challenged then updated to match the changes and progress of the country.

Exposing embarrassing failures of antiquated laws in the media may be the only chance one has to effect change, these people stick their neck out for us all in the end, That lady in Florida unwittingly ( not real sure if it was unwittingly) has a chance at effecting real change in off grid rights or lack there of.

She is a odd ball ! as most balls roll to the corner not the front stage..
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Old 04-11-14, 08:00 AM   #25
Ryland
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Stuff like this is why I get annoyed at people who install solar without permits, using substandard parts and a rats nest of wires, because those people are just as likely to get headlines written about them, and those headlines will read something like "city doesn't like solar" or "Solar panels banned" or "creating clean electricity illegal" and they will be written that way because someone did something stupid and illegal.

Make your project safe and even if you don't get a permit or have it inspected, make sure it follows the electrical code.

Same is true for plumbing projects, if you get caught dumping your rain water down the sewer and not paying a sewer bill then realize that it was your own fault instead of getting stories written about how "off grid living is illegal"

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