The Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by kbonk

Another product for fodder which I thought you all might like to see is a unit I have been tracking across the pond. has anyone seen a HP HRV air to water, looks very simple
called a Genvex? Combi 185

This looks pretty interesting...

So are you considering making your own air to water heat pump?

Or perhaps a heat pump Heat Recovery Ventilator?

Or perhaps both integrated together like a combi?

Have you done any similar projects?

-AC_Hacker

[kbonk]

Yes, yes, and yes
Similar, Not really I am an industrial designer who builds a lot of prototypes, I am a Solidworks (software) user and have a good associate which has 30 + years in industrial refrigeration. He has been watching also and we are compiling components now for testing.

Kbonk
Bottle Rocket Scientist

[AC_Hacker]

Gary, of Build It Solar sent me a useful link to a site that manufactures a number of interesting and curious products that exploit vapor-compression machines in various ways.

Delving into just one of them reveals a split Air Conditioner that re-directs it wasted heat to a DHW tank. They even have fairly detailed installation instructions of this thing, which among other things, illustrate this ingenious tank tap:

Lots of food for thought throughout the web-site.

Check it out...

-AC_Hacker

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by kbonk

...we are compiling components now for testing...

So what is your first project going to be?

I just bet you have some dandy Solidworks sketches you could share...

-AC_Hacker

[kbonk]

Solidworks stuff is income related to date, and some is shareable at some time.
I would like to incorporate a Passive HRV first, then tie in the technology you show above to augment hot water. Considering the requirements of thermal transfer I think there are a number of innovative uses for a core passive HRV module.
all this depends on the "found components "
More to come lets keep hacking

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by kbonk

...I think there are a number of innovative uses for a core passive HRV module...

EcoRenovator is a DIY website, where we actually build things and also use descriptions, photographs, drawings and even computer assisted illustrations to document our ideas, successes and mistakes.

We are here to share this information with the rest of the interested, intelligent and active community of people.

We do this so that we might all benefit.

It would be a good and useful and even neighborly thing to share more specific information about the "number of innovative uses" you are contemplating.

-AC_Hacker

[kbonk]

I want o add to this form and agree in DiY concept.
and Will Share;
Consider, placing your Geo ground tubes in basement floor, or foundation walls under three feet why drill wells? Air to water systems IE; Ecocute systems, R744.com
For thermal mass flooring consider Versa Rock dry laying cement sheet , Phase changing material: Micronal by BASF
thin walled insulation, aerogel by Cabot
The Wright Brothers had each other, we are all brothers in kind
Hope I havent offended anyone with My limited time and comunications

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by kbonk

Consider, placing your Geo ground tubes in basement floor, or foundation walls under three feet why drill wells?

Interesting... I had a related idea, I was thinking of drilling my boreholes through my basement floor, only continuing on down about 200 feet deep, each hole. I still think it is a good idea, you're dry, out of the weather and can work in comfort... less likely to make serious mistakes.

Regarding 'why drill holes', I have come to appreciate how very slowly heat moves through the earth. I have also come to understand that when you drill a 200 foot deep borehole, and install a loop, you are extracting heat from a huge cylinder that is 200 feet high and about 16 feet in diameter (actually larger, but there is the law of diminishing returns). That is a huge mass of earth... through which the heat moves very slowly... but if you have 200 feet (depending on your soil characteristics) you will be able to extract aprox. 12,000 BTU/hr... not forever, but if everything is balanced properly, perhaps enough to get you through the winter. If your house is big, and/or poorly insulated, you'll need multiple holes to draw from.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are talking about extracting heat from your foundation at depths under 3 feet... correct? I think you could extract some heat, but probably not very much. Compared to a cylinder 200 feet deep by 16 feet in diameter, a typical foundation is not so massive. If you extract too much heat, you will lower your frost-line and freeze your foundation, perhaps even making it heave, crack and fail. Not so good.

Originally Posted by kbonk

Air to water systems | Ecocute systems | R744.com

OK, this is an existing product... What is your thinking here?

Originally Posted by kbonk

For thermal mass flooring consider Versa Rock dry laying cement sheet , Phase changing material: Micronal by BASF

So are you reading brochures or have you found a way to DIY this stuff?

Originally Posted by kbonk

thin walled insulation, aerogel by Cabot

Yes, this is a product... and your thinking here is???

Originally Posted by kbonk

The Wright Brothers had each other...

The Wright brothers also did a huge amount of building and testing and changing their ideas many times and building more models and more testing until, finally they were finally, after years, able to fly. If they never built and tested and re-worked and tested... they never would have gotten off the ground.

Originally Posted by kbonk

Hope I havent offended anyone...

Not at all... Building stuff and actually finding out what works is such a tremendous kick!

Having some hands-on experience is also helpful for those times when the brain storms really start to howl, because only with some experience to draw upon, will you know for sure which way the wind is actually blowing.

Respectfully,

-AC_Hacker

[S-F]

Yeah, freezing foundation. I have talked to a couple people where I live that have frozen their foundations with direct exchange systems. They were trying to have too many wells too close to the house due to a limited yard.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by S-F

Yeah, freezing foundation. I have talked to a couple people where I live that have frozen their foundations with direct exchange systems. They were trying to have too many wells too close to the house due to a limited yard.

When I was considering DX ground source, I came across some Canadian DX installers who took certain precautions regarding foundations and freezing. I tend to trust Canadians on such matters.

One precaution was to keep boreholes at least 20 feet from the foundation.

The other precaution was to use thick, high-quality insulation on the refrigerant lines going between the heat pump situated in the basement and the loop field.

This particular Canadian company did vertical boreholes, but I have noticed that many DX installers are now using a conical pattern for their loop field, with the large part of the cone at the bottom, so figuring distances from the foundation would have to take this subterranean geometry into account.

When I built my little loop field (it seemed really huge when I built it, now it seems so tiny) I knew that there was the possibility of freezing the ground, and that was one reason I started at the back edge of my lot. This winter, when I was testing, I closely monitored my loop-water temp, in order to avoid freezing and damaging my heat exchangers... another great reason to run water in the loop. I don't know if you would be able to tell if you were freezing the ground if you did a DX installation.

There's a lot of heat energy that can be withdrawn from the ground by freezing it, what with the latent heat of fusion and all. I thought it would be better to avoid freezing, because then I could run straight water, which has a higher heat-carrying capacity than a water/anti-freeze mix... less viscosity too.

-AC_Hacker