Remodeling the office (new floor, ceiling & adding insulation) passive house retrofit - Page 9

AC_Hacker · 10-22-12, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

Here are the picture from the phone.

Did you include thermal breaks in the headers?

Not doing that could lose a fair percentage of what your windows gain.

-AC

S-F · 10-22-12, 10:26 AM

The exterior foam makes the wall pretty thermally broken.

Daox · 10-22-12, 10:34 AM

The headers aren't thermally broken. In addition to the exterior foam, there will also be 7 inches of cellulose on the inside side of the header that will futher slow thermal transfer since the wall is now 10" thick. All in all, the target was to have a ~R40 wall (not including windows which are R7.3).

AC_Hacker · 10-22-12, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

...since the wall is now 10" thick...

Ten inches thick walls?

Sounds like serious walls certainly merit Serious Windows.

-AC

Daox · 10-22-12, 11:14 AM

Yep, 10 inches. I won't be able to do it everywhere in the house, but this was kind of my best crack at a passive house retrofit.

AC_Hacker · 10-22-12, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

Yep, 10 inches. I won't be able to do it everywhere in the house, but this was kind of my best crack at a passive house retrofit.

I certainly admire your willingness to go the distance on your remodel, a real commitment.

No half measures there.

Best,

-AC

S-F · 10-22-12, 03:21 PM

Daox, what made you decide on 10" as opposed to 12"? The reason so many people use 12" walls is that it seems to be a good break even point for wall vs. window R value. Much more doesn't accomplish a whole lot with regular (Good) windows on a manual J or PHPP. You have broken the bank with the Serious (ly expensive) windows.

I just got estimates on Marvin integrity fiberglass 3 pane windows for my house and the ROI was over 100 years as opposed tot he vinyl replacements I already have. They need to go because they condense moisture. The ROI for replacing them with double pane Marvin Integrity casements is closer to 70 years but the comfort value is immediate upon replacement and very real.

Daox · 10-22-12, 04:28 PM

This room remodel is an experiment and the outcome will influence the remodel of my entire upstairs which is largely untouched and has the same plaster wall insulation.

My target was an ~R40 wall. That target was based on an overall future target of R60 walls which is what I've seen on most passive homes. At some point in the future, I hope to get around to putting 4" of foam on the exterior bumping it up to R60. The reason to limit it to 10" is this is a remodel. This room I had a good deal of interior space to loose. My upstairs rooms are much smaller and I can't afford to loose 6" of interior space. I might only be able to loose 2" or 4" up there. Thankfully, with the planned hydronic heating system on multiple zones this shouldn't be a problem and unbalance the heating loads.

The windows definitely cost a ton and will never pay for themselves. Seperated from the cost of this project, they cost more than everything else combined. I wanted to see what the best was and how it performs compared to other windows. I'm unsure if I'll use them upstairs or not. This winter will show how well they really work. In addition to that, I also believe that homes should be built to last 100 years, and I sincerely hope that mine is still standing well after I am not around to see it anymore. With any luck those windows will still be keeping those future occupants comfortable and keeping their bills low. That would be pretty cool.

Daox · 10-25-12, 09:12 AM

I haven't made a ton of progress lately, but I'll put up what I have done.

I started shooting expanding foam into the gaps between the foam board insulation on the exterior last night. My great stuff gun seemed to clog up so I tried the cleaner can. It pushed out a bit of gunk then it plugged completely... So, I quickly took it in the garage and disassembled it. I dumped all the bits into a bowl with acetone in it and they're bathing in it currently. This was my fault. I let it sit way too long with a mostly empty can on it. I should have put the cleaner on it before letting it sit that long. Lesson learned. It is no longer clogged, and it should work.

Other than that, I've been trying to figure out the how I want to make the cubby hole I'll be making. On the other side of the corner shown below is my TV. We currently use a small table and put the electronics on it. But, I'd like to make an in wall cubby to store it all. So, I've cut the wall away for it and outlined where I want the hole in the wall to be.

You can see the faint penciling in where the hole will be.

Daox · 10-30-12, 12:14 PM

Time for more updates. I am NOT a fast working carpenter at all I've found out. But, everything seems to be going together.

Friday night I went and got some materials. Since I remove four trash cans full of plaster, I wanted to put some thermal mass back into the wall. To do this I bought 1/2" concrete backer board that will go on the wall first. To go over the top is a higher density 1/2" drywall. This won't equal the thermal mass of all the plaster that I removed, but with the addition of the insulation and better air sealing it should more than make up for it.

I had been discussing thermal mass options with the guys here: http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...s-drywall.html

The next bit of work was done on the in wall entertainment cabinet that I'm making. I sized it, cut the hole in the wall, and framed it all in.

After that was done, I could finally put up the two remaining wall joists that I had not nailed down. I wanted to be sure I'd have room to get the cabinet in.

So, I'm pretty much down to adding power outlets on the wall, taking care of a few switches that were by the old door, and then putting in the concrete board so that it can be insulated. Then, this project will sit on the back burner until I get the outside work done on the solar panels. Thats the plan at least...

10-22-12, 10:34 AM	#83
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The headers aren't thermally broken. In addition to the exterior foam, there will also be 7 inches of cellulose on the inside side of the header that will futher slow thermal transfer since the wall is now 10" thick. All in all, the target was to have a ~R40 wall (not including windows which are R7.3). __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 10-22-12 at 10:46 AM..

10-22-12, 11:14 AM	#85
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Yep, 10 inches. I won't be able to do it everywhere in the house, but this was kind of my best crack at a passive house retrofit. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-22-12, 04:28 PM	#88
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	This room remodel is an experiment and the outcome will influence the remodel of my entire upstairs which is largely untouched and has the same plaster wall insulation. My target was an ~R40 wall. That target was based on an overall future target of R60 walls which is what I've seen on most passive homes. At some point in the future, I hope to get around to putting 4" of foam on the exterior bumping it up to R60. The reason to limit it to 10" is this is a remodel. This room I had a good deal of interior space to loose. My upstairs rooms are much smaller and I can't afford to loose 6" of interior space. I might only be able to loose 2" or 4" up there. Thankfully, with the planned hydronic heating system on multiple zones this shouldn't be a problem and unbalance the heating loads. The windows definitely cost a ton and will never pay for themselves. Seperated from the cost of this project, they cost more than everything else combined. I wanted to see what the best was and how it performs compared to other windows. I'm unsure if I'll use them upstairs or not. This winter will show how well they really work. In addition to that, I also believe that homes should be built to last 100 years, and I sincerely hope that mine is still standing well after I am not around to see it anymore. With any luck those windows will still be keeping those future occupants comfortable and keeping their bills low. That would be pretty cool. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-25-12, 09:12 AM	#89
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I haven't made a ton of progress lately, but I'll put up what I have done. I started shooting expanding foam into the gaps between the foam board insulation on the exterior last night. My great stuff gun seemed to clog up so I tried the cleaner can. It pushed out a bit of gunk then it plugged completely... So, I quickly took it in the garage and disassembled it. I dumped all the bits into a bowl with acetone in it and they're bathing in it currently. This was my fault. I let it sit way too long with a mostly empty can on it. I should have put the cleaner on it before letting it sit that long. Lesson learned. It is no longer clogged, and it should work. Other than that, I've been trying to figure out the how I want to make the cubby hole I'll be making. On the other side of the corner shown below is my TV. We currently use a small table and put the electronics on it. But, I'd like to make an in wall cubby to store it all. So, I've cut the wall away for it and outlined where I want the hole in the wall to be. You can see the faint penciling in where the hole will be. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-30-12, 12:14 PM	#90
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Time for more updates. I am NOT a fast working carpenter at all I've found out. But, everything seems to be going together. Friday night I went and got some materials. Since I remove four trash cans full of plaster, I wanted to put some thermal mass back into the wall. To do this I bought 1/2" concrete backer board that will go on the wall first. To go over the top is a higher density 1/2" drywall. This won't equal the thermal mass of all the plaster that I removed, but with the addition of the insulation and better air sealing it should more than make up for it. I had been discussing thermal mass options with the guys here: http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...s-drywall.html The next bit of work was done on the in wall entertainment cabinet that I'm making. I sized it, cut the hole in the wall, and framed it all in. After that was done, I could finally put up the two remaining wall joists that I had not nailed down. I wanted to be sure I'd have room to get the cabinet in. So, I'm pretty much down to adding power outlets on the wall, taking care of a few switches that were by the old door, and then putting in the concrete board so that it can be insulated. Then, this project will sit on the back burner until I get the outside work done on the solar panels. Thats the plan at least... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.