12-14-11, 08:49 PM | #1 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
Re-Insulating the Kitchen...
I live in a small, 120 year old house. When I moved in there was no insulation at all. I started with R13 fiber glass in the cavities, with no knowledge of, or regard for movement of air in the wall cavity. As the project slowly progressed, my methods have also progressed. I have come to realize how serious the energy issue is and how important it is to insulate really well. So I am now at a point where I am removing insulation I previously used and updating it, using better materials and techniques.
I have settled on using EPS rigid foam board in the wall cavities, and increasing the wall cavity by 50% (to an actual 6 inches), and filling the cavity with EPS (three layers of 2" board), that is carefully cut, layered and sealed. In the kitchen, three of the walls are exposed, and I have already insulated the ceiling, and two walls, leaving the third wall and underneath the floor to do now. First job was to remove the sheet rock. Here is the 4" wall with the R15 fiber glass waiting to be replaced. Here is the wall with the R15 removed. I put duplex outlets along the top of the walls, as well as the bottom for greater flexibility in lighting. The top outlet of the outlet is switched by the kitchen light switch, the lower outlet is always on... Note the caulking that I did from inside the wall... I was trying... Because I will be making the wall 2" thicker, the electric outlets will need to be brought forward by that amount... In some cases, there is enough extra wire in the wall to allow for the outlet move, in other cases, I will need to re-wire. Here the firring is going on. One of the last things I learned about is the importance of reducing thermal bridging, do I am using skip-spacers and filling the spaces between spacers with 1/2" foam strips. Not the very best way to prevent thermal bridging, but better than nothing. -AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 12-14-11 at 08:51 PM.. |
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post: | Daox (12-15-11) |
12-14-11, 09:47 PM | #2 |
Journeyman EcoRenovator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 326
Thanks: 109
Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts
|
Hey nice wood floors. Seems like thats a bonus when you purchase an older home.
Now if only I was that brave to take the sheetrock down, pull the old fiberglass down and do what you are doing...... What do you expect for R value once you have it complete? I bet the other benefit of the rigid is the ablity to block drafts. Great job AC |
12-15-11, 06:16 AM | #3 |
You Ain't Me
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northampton MA
Posts: 662
Thanks: 6
Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts
|
Nice!
How are you going to be sealing the EPS? Hopefully if you get a really good seal between each sheet of EPS and all the surrounding lumber the leakiness that board sheathing should be reduced to a minimum. Go Go Go! |
12-15-11, 08:09 AM | #4 |
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
|
Very nice. An upgrade from a semi-leaky R15 that likely gets worse as it gets colder out to a nice solid R30 is quite the improvement!
__________________
Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
12-15-11, 10:40 AM | #5 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 142
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
|
Good job. I am almost finished with a similar job on my kitchen. With all the different step for air sealing you are doing, why are you not just using a large spray foam kit? That is what I did.
|
12-15-11, 11:00 AM | #6 | |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
Quote:
I'm doing this on a pretty tight budget. There is also another factor involved here, in that my son who is helping me at $10/hr, is not able to find other work, so this is sort of a mini WPA project, to help him through the tough times. But all-in-all, if the cost is cheaper I could hire him to do this and also other projects... There is still the space under the floors to do... That's really gonna eat up a lot of foam. -AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 12-15-11 at 12:29 PM.. |
|
12-15-11, 01:04 PM | #7 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 142
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
|
600sf kit w/ shipping was $698. I sprayed ~3 inches over ~200sf. so 700/200 = $3.50 /sf. I also increased the thickness of the wall to 8 inches. I filled the rest of the cavities with blown in cellulose. I only needed a few bags after what I salvaged during demo. Anyway, I'd guess it was quicker and about the same cost/sf as your project.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to hamsterpower For This Useful Post: | AC_Hacker (12-15-11) |
12-15-11, 01:07 PM | #8 | |||
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
That is the great question.
The older stufff I was buying was rated at 4 to 4.5/in., and this newer stuff I'm buying is rated at 7.8/2" or R-3.9/in. I don't know if they are using different process/materials, or if they were forced to get honest. So, I'm expecting R-23.4 from the foam in the walls. There will be an extra R-1 for the wood, R0.5 from the sheet rock and maybe an R-1 for the air barriers at the surfaces of the wall, for a total of R-25.9 or so. Then there is the thermal bridging thing, and with regular studs, I'll lose 18% for and honest R-21.2. My efforts at thermal bridging reduction should up that at least a bit. It was suggested to me that a 1/2" foam layer on the inside, over the studs will go a long way to reduce thermal bridging. My grand plan is to do an outside wrap too... but that may be in the distant future. I have been purchasing duplex outlets that have screw-adjusters and that gives me the option to add the extra 1/2" foam wrap inside, if I want. Great Stuff at all edges... After the foam sets up, I trim it back flush, then I stagger the joints when I do the next layer, and foam and trim, etc. Quote:
Doors and windows are a different matter. Quote:
So far, even with just 2 walls and the ceiling done this way, the infiltration reduction is quite noticeable, and already, I completely recognize the requirement of a HRV in the project. Quote:
This project is already underway, and pretty small, but I may use your method as I progress into other rooms. Thanks for this info. Thanks all, for the encouragement... -AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 12-15-11 at 01:14 PM.. |
|||
12-15-11, 01:22 PM | #9 |
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
|
What're you using thats only R3.9 per inch? The extruded polystyrene I see in the store is all rated at R5 per inch (owens corning).
__________________
Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 12-15-11 at 01:26 PM.. |
12-15-11, 01:28 PM | #10 | |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
Quote:
-AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|