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Old 12-23-11, 02:34 AM   #1041
Ko_deZ
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Originally Posted by launboy View Post
"I think series would be better if I did this..." I wrote that wrong, I was thinking parallel would actually be better, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you all think, and what's the reasoning behind it?
You are quite right. Parallel is better. The reason is simply that you avoid having possibly a full HX freeze up. The first one will always be colder than the second one. This is the same problem as having multiple drill holes and putting them in series. Without proper control, the first well will freeze up and loose virtually all it's usefulness in heat transfer, leaving the fewer wells to get heat from, and accelerating the freeze up speed. With all in parallel you will have full effect of all wells until they all freeze up at the same time.

-Ko_deZ-

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Old 12-23-11, 10:22 AM   #1042
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With all in parallel you will have full effect of all wells until they all freeze up at the same time.
-Ko_deZ-,

So how is your heat pump project coming?

I'm sure you are in full winter mode there where you are...

Did you ever get you heat pump built and tested?

I have been trying to buy one of those Fine Wire HX units. There was a guy named Viking House who posted on here, offering to sell a unit at his cost. I found out what postage would be, and the unit cost and all, but I haven't heard back from him in a couple of weeks.

Could you tell me a bit more about the HRV you are using? You reported very good efficiency. I'm now in the process of finishing the insulation and sealing off my kitchen, so heat recovery ventilation is definitely on the agenda for me.

All the sealing I have been doing over the years is starting to pay off. This is actually the first house I have had that was tight enough to actually be uncomfortable. As ironic as it sounds, I think it's an accomplishment.

Energy costs are still too cheap in the USA for anyone except idiots such as myself and others on this eco-blog, to take energy efficiency very seriously.

Thanks for any information you might pass my way.

By the way, I'm still looking into CO2 sensors and the idea of demand control ventilation. I haven't forgotten.

-AC_Hacker
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Old 12-23-11, 03:03 PM   #1043
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-Ko_deZ-,

So how is your heat pump project coming?

I'm sure you are in full winter mode there where you are...

Did you ever get you heat pump built and tested?
Got the last pieces I need today, so not yet. Currently running with a hot water heater. It is cold, but just around freezing, not like last year, when we had 20C below (40F?) for a month already.
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I have been trying to buy one of those Fine Wire HX units. There was a guy named Viking House who posted on here, offering to sell a unit at his cost. I found out what postage would be, and the unit cost and all, but I haven't heard back from him in a couple of weeks.
I had some questions as well, but he seems to have vanished. I am not sure that he was completely honest with us. His claims where illogical imo.
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Could you tell me a bit more about the HRV you are using? You reported very good efficiency. I'm now in the process of finishing the insulation and sealing off my kitchen, so heat recovery ventilation is definitely on the agenda for me.
Not much to add that I have not already mentioned. I have a HRV that has two 1 meter long 20 by 20 cm tubes full of long wavy aluminium fins going the full length. The airflow alternates back and forth between them. On my pad thingy, so hard to both type and make drawings.
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Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
All the sealing I have been doing over the years is starting to pay off. This is actually the first house I have had that was tight enough to actually be uncomfortable. As ironic as it sounds, I think it's an accomplishment.

Energy costs are still too cheap in the USA for anyone except idiots such as myself and others on this eco-blog, to take energy efficiency very seriously.

Thanks for any information you might pass my way.
Try to use Google translate on ener.no for now. After the holidays I get access to a keyboard and mouse again.
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By the way, I'm still looking into CO2 sensors and the idea of demand control ventilation. I haven't forgotten.

-AC_Hacker
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Old 12-24-11, 11:48 AM   #1044
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Default Email From Randen...

I just got this email from Randen, who is vacationing with his family in the sunny south (Argentina)...
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Year to date numbers

Thought I would send a note. I'm currently on Christmas break with my wife's family in Buenos Aires. Before we had left I had paid all the bills and I keep a spread sheet on my electrical power. To-date the power consumption is more than 20% less. My tool shop and home share the same meter but still the savings are spectacular. The cost per Kwh is up but my usage is down by allot. The savings equate to about $1200.00 I can say that the solar hot-water heating has the greatest effect. For the months April to Sept. only needed about three days of electrical input for hot water the balance solar. And the solar when avaliable for the hydronic floor is impressive. Its all automatic and I can only hear the little tick when the circ pump starts. Now the shop with the new heat pump and we will improve it drastically over the next few months . The days of the oil delivery truck backing up and leaving me with a bill that I could barely survive. ($8000.00 +) for the year home and shop. You efforts here in the eco renovator site are greatly appreciated. The heat-pump for the shop I would have never attempted. I didn't know it could be that simple. More people should know about all these things why pay for heat when its over your head and under your feet you have only to collect it and use is wisely. I think it should be in the building code. You have a property (house) with a roof with solar access. You have to have a solar collector. Never mind the granite counter-tops and media rooms.

Anyway I'm ranting The best of the season.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Randy
-AC_Hacker

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Old 12-24-11, 11:56 AM   #1045
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What a great letter. Thats a lot of money to be saving a year too!
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Old 12-24-11, 02:31 PM   #1046
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What a great letter. Thats a lot of money to be saving a year too!
Yeah, it is a great letter.

The part of Randen's project that I like the best is that he is combining several approaches in dealing with his heating objective:
  • Solar Water Heating
  • DIY Ground Source Heat Pump
  • Insulation

Too many people just think of getting more heat, and they don't realize that if they can reduce heat loss, it is like getting more heat, only it lasts longer.

And the solar water heating for when that is available... just great!

Randen has the 'Big Picture' approach.

-AC_Hacker
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Old 12-27-11, 06:33 PM   #1047
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Originally Posted by Ko_deZ View Post
You are quite right. Parallel is better. The reason is simply that you avoid having possibly a full HX freeze up.

-Ko_deZ-
Thanks Ko_deZ, this is what I suspected. Since for this first test I'm going to avoid breaking the seal, I'm just using the evap built into the window A/C. To try to delay freeze-up and add efficiency I plan to build an adapter out of sheet metal so I can have both the blower from the working A/C and the one from the A/C that lost it's refrigerant pulling air through the coil. My hope is the extra ari flow will keep the coil temp a little higher and stave off freeze ups so I have to do less defrosting.

I have another question though, I'm going to be running in temps between 30*-40*F, and trying to keep the hottub at least 102*F, will my heat pump even be able to achieve that Delta T?

Adam
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Old 12-27-11, 08:34 PM   #1048
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More questions for hacking a heat pump...... when brazing the refrigerant line, you would use nitrogen or propane if your brave. The deposit for a nitrogen bottle is about $100 and the fill is about $25.

Why couldn't we use a portable air tank and fill it at the local Discount Tire or Costco? Both of them in our area use nitrogen for filling tires.
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Old 12-28-11, 12:31 AM   #1049
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...when brazing the refrigerant line, you would use nitrogen or propane if your brave. The deposit for a nitrogen bottle is about $100 and the fill is about $25.
The price stopped me in my tracks, too.

So here's the story:

Propane works as a purge gas, but just because it works and is readily available and is cheap is no reason to use it. Because it is so dangerous I can't recommend that anyone else use propane as a purge gas.

Quote:
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Why couldn't we use a portable air tank and fill it at the local Discount Tire or Costco? Both of them in our area use nitrogen for filling tires.
You might be on to something here. Try it out on some test pieces, cut them open and see if there is any oxide inside. Take photos and let us know how it works.

The nitrogen idea sounds pretty good, if it is really nitrogen.

Some people think CO2 would work out. Daox tried it and said it worked fine. I haven't tried it myself, so I can't speak from personal experience.

For HVAC work you want a dry, inert gas. argon would work, and it's expensive, but you might already have it in your welding kit.

-AC_Hacker
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Old 12-31-11, 04:29 AM   #1050
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AC, you haven't posted an update on your personal system in a while, how are things coming with it? Any performance updates or things you've learned? Did you have time to do anything with the portable ac/hp you got?

Inquisitive minds would like to know,
Adam

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