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Old 04-01-10, 01:10 PM   #11
Xringer
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It failed around the last day of December. I think the total run-time was about 45 days..

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/projec....html#post5426


The day before I was supposed to get a replacement unit (outdoor unit), Sanyo USA sold
all 70 units they had in stock to some dealer.. So, I had to wait for the next shipment and customs delays etc.

I have my own ideas about what may have caused the leak, but the odds are it was just a weak spot in the copper, caused by a tad too much heat..
R410A runs at a higher pressure than the old refrigerants and that could be a factor..

From what I've been able to find out, this Sanyo model line (Inverter using R410A) has been very popular around the world for around 5 years now, and seems to be very reliable.

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Old 04-16-10, 09:29 AM   #12
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Default Sanyo power usage for April 1 to 15 ~ helped by solar gain.

We are still using the Sanyo for heat every day, but the power consumption
has dropped drastically as the days get warmer.

Many of these first 15 days of April have been very sunny. So, after a cold
night and morning, we are getting an extra bonus of solar warming
from about 9AM until about 6PM.
Even from a higher angle of radiation, this Springtime solar warming
is more effective than we get in the winter.
This maybe partly due to east and west-facing windows, which do not
help much with Solar-Gain during the winter.



December 2009:
Day of Month / kWh / Average degrees F.

1, 9.26, 38
2, 7.23, 44
3, 2.88, 60
4, 5.62, 49
5, 9.17, 36
6, 10.5, 27
7, 12.9, 29
8, 12.2, 29
9, 9.23, 36
10, 8.77, 32
11, 14.2, 23
12, 14.3, 24
13, 12.9, 28
14, 9.95, 37
15, 8.58, 40
16, 10.4, 29
17, 16.9, 16
18, 14.5, 16
19, 11.5, 20
20, 11.5, 21
21, 14.2, 25.3
22, 15.2, 23.3
23, 14.8, 15.2
24, 8.17, 28.7
25, 13.8, 27.1
26, 10.5, 36.2
27, 8.35, 44.6
28, 13.8, 31.7
29, 15.3, 21.0
30, 10.5, 17.0
>>>March 2010, w/ new outdoor unit<<<
26, 8.56, 38.8
27, 13.9, 26.0
28, 9.37, 37.2
29, 7.05, 49.9
30, 8.05, 46.8
31, 7.82, 45.8
>>>April 2010, w/ new outdoor unit<<<
1, 5.00, 51.1
2, 4.45, 50.9
3, 2.45, 59.8
4, 2.89, 61.9
5, 1.14, 58.9
6, 2.72, 56.2
7, 2.67, 65.9 <<Tested AC mode when peak went to 89.3F / record breaker>>
8, 2.54, 55.0
9, 5.26, 48.0
10, 6.02, 47.3
11, 2.09, 55
12, 2.72, 48
13, 5.68, 44
14, 3.25, 49.8
15, 3.55, 47.4

Tax Day Notes:
It's been a cool first half of April. We have been turning the Sanyo off on the warmer afternoons.
It's very nice to have breakfast at 72degs when it's in the mid 30s outdoors.
These first 15 days of April (50.7kWh) cost us $10.10 (@0.20 per kWh).
After this little burst of snowy weekend weather is gone, we should see
from 1.5 to 2.5 kWh per day for the rest of April, ending the heating season. (I hope)!

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/projec....html#post5090
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Old 04-18-10, 12:02 AM   #13
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If you still have the broken outdoor unit, turn it into a heat pump water heater, then no more need for oil.
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Old 04-18-10, 09:03 AM   #14
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I need to keep the oil burner up to par, since it's my main back-up.
My Plan 'C' backup is wood, but I don't normally have a lot on hand.

I'm hoping some Solar PV assist on the boiler will provide most of our
summer hot water needs. I'm about ready to order some panels.

If Sanyo doesn't want the old unit back, I think it might be valuable as a source of spare parts.
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Old 04-18-10, 02:50 PM   #15
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What about some thermal solar panels? They would be cheaper.
Or what about buy a cheap window A/C (used is fine) and modify it into a heat pump water heater?
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Old 04-18-10, 03:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiHaoMike View Post
What about some thermal solar panels? They would be cheaper.
Or what about buy a cheap window A/C (used is fine) and modify it into a heat pump water heater?

What is the price of a small thermal hot water system these days??


The PVHW project I'm thinking of is going to cost between $700 & $1000.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-...eat-water.html

I've been thinking about using one of my old AC units to make a hotwater heater,
and ASHPs are great for dehumidifying the basement..

But, there is a problem. Most of the time, it's cold or cool around here.
We don't get a lot of hot weather. It's mid April now and the Sanyo is
heating the house every day.



Right now, the air temperature in the basement is about 57 degrees F.
My dehumidifier doesn't work when it's that cold.
I have use a space heater to melt the ice on it's coil.
We still have a damp floor in the basement (due to floods).


Anyways, I'm pretty sure that an ASHP for hotwater in the basement
isn't going to work very well until July or August.
In the spring and fall, I would have to use oil to heat water.

Last edited by Xringer; 04-18-10 at 04:39 PM..
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Old 04-18-10, 04:51 PM   #17
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Build your own thermal solar collectors.
Welcome to The Sietch - Projects Build Your Own Solar Thermal Panel
Paint copper tubing black to make the black tubing.
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Old 04-18-10, 05:42 PM   #18
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Default Cheaper? Compared to oil?

The roof is Off Limits for any panels right now. (We just had it re-shingled).
And I don't want to try to pipe hot water from way out in the backyard.

Plus, I've had solar thermal hotwater before, (1980s) and it turned out
to be a PITA when the components started to corrode and leak.

I'm just about sold on PVHW, due to it's low number of moving parts and things that can go wrong.

The PV panels aren't going to generate power to replace AC power used in the house.
Their DC will be used to directly heat hot water, in place of heating that same water with oil heat..

So, I'm not comparing the kWh output of PV to what NStar is charging for power these days.

I'm comparing the PV BTUs going into the hotwater,
to the cost of heating hotwater with $3 per-gallon oil..

To fill my 275 gallon oil tank with $3 per-gallon oil, costs $825.00
If oil goes up to $5, it's going to be $1,375.00 for a fill up..

If I stay under $1,000 for my PV and loads, I think break-even would
occur pretty fast at $3 per gallon..

Of course, it could go down.. One never knows.
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Old 04-18-10, 09:20 PM   #19
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Use the solar to power a heat pump. Compressors are cheaper than solar panels. It will give you 2-3 times the heat for the same amount of solar panels. With a closed loop inverter, you can use a 100-200w solar panel to power a refrigerator compressor (about 150w nominal, but can be less or more with an inverter) and get about 200-600w (resistive equivalent) of heat.

It's still less efficient than solar thermal, however. But if you have some way to use the cooling, it can be worth it.

Note that copper is very resistant to corrosion, especially if the working fluid contains chemicals to prevent such corrosion. (Propylene glycol solution used for solar thermal often has it.)
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Old 04-18-10, 11:14 PM   #20
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Using PV to directly heat the water is so simple. And will likely pay for itself in oil savings, pretty quickly.
Plus, the PV array will likely last for about 30 years with minimum upkeep.

I know all about glycol with corrosion inhibitors. That part of my old system wasn't a problem.
The fresh water side of the heat exchanger and the storage tank are where the leaks occurred. Our water eats copper.


My testing shows that about 240 watts of heat (819 BTUh) will cause
heat gain in my boiler, when set to summertime temperatures.

Having 4,000 BTU would be nice, but it could be capacity that I don't really need.
There are only two people living here.

~~~Edit 11,20,2010
I've found the reason I got heat gain with 240 watts.. I was heating the water at the top
of the tank.. Also measuring at the top of the tank.. Very misleading.

Last month, during good solar days, with about 5 hours in the 400-500 watt range,
there was no net gain. But the rate of loss slowed greatly. I think more PV is needed.
My guess is 800 to 1,000 watts of PV would work pretty well.


Last edited by Xringer; 11-20-10 at 08:37 AM.. Reason: I was wrong!
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