EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Renovations & New Construction
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-15, 08:54 PM   #521
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

It is hard to tell from pictures of control boards I have been looking at whether the the connecting copper is 1" or 3/4"? Is pipe size/flow/volume similar to regular domestic plumbing? Or does one size or the other fit most hydronic control components better?

Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-15, 05:02 AM   #522
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Do you have a pic of the manifold you want to use? Most of the ones for resi use are 1" header with 1/2" spigots for the pex. Commercial ones which can be up to 30 loops, can have 1.25" headers and 3/4" spigots, but they are usually special order.

The pressures and flow rates are lower than for DHW but things leak, non the less so make it as tight as you can.

Connecting copper is dependent on the flow rate needed. 10,000btu is only 1 gpm so, if it is a short distance, you could get away with 1/2" but 3/4" is much more common. If less than 10Mbtu, 1/2" is easy.
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-15, 09:47 AM   #523
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I'll be making my own manifold because it is just for now two loops in one zone for one 14x28 floor area; It will be 1" to 5/8 pex and flow adjustable. What I'm not certain of is the copper size from heat source to cir. pump to 3 way mixer to exp. tank and fill, shutoffs,etc. to manifold.

I have joined a lot of copper in my day so I am confident I can. But I admit I do not yet clearly understand hydronic controls. Most pre assembled controls I am sourcing seem designed way to complex for my simple system or do not have a pump I want or include what might be a current component in its design that elli now greatly improve a simple design(like outdoor setback might).

I still have a lot of opportunity to design my structure to work with as uncomplex hrdronic system as I can so I don't have an absolute plan that I have to designed for yet. It is more if I go this direction it will require this control design but if I go another way it would be much simpler or more complicated(not KISS). So If it appears I am talking in circles it is because I have a structure I can to some degree yet build to fit my radiant heat. I am about 75% set in my overall plan so more and more I have to deal with what is as to what I can change. All the input I have been given so far has been very valuable in helping me toward my goal.
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-15, 05:59 AM   #524
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Sorry if you have posted the rough heat loss as I don't remember it but for 400ft2, the WORST it could ever be (and I mean really crappy insulation) is 50 btu/ft2 or 20mbtu which is 2gpm at a 20F dT across the loops. A 3/4" pipe from the heat source to the manifold is more than big enough for that. I think I said this somewhere in some past post, haha.

You will also need the smallest pump you can find such as a Grundfos UP10-B5 or a Taco 003 or something with an equivalent flow. Don't put a big pump on it
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-15, 03:07 PM   #525
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Some of these posts are so participated in and have so much inter thread info that It is hard to recall what has been said or in which thread. But its all a goldmine to me.
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-15, 01:35 PM   #526
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

So, I have had a chance to see a few hydronic radiant control layout at local retails(DIY and mass market) and see in more detail than pics. On all of them the supply copper size changed from 3/4 to 1" just at the cir. pump loop. Is that to match pump flow? Pump fittings? Manifolds(all where 1")? Copper from heat source was 3/4" in all.
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-15, 05:42 AM   #527
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake View Post
So, I have had a chance to see a few hydronic radiant control layout at local retails(DIY and mass market) and see in more detail than pics. On all of them the supply copper size changed from 3/4 to 1" just at the cir. pump loop. Is that to match pump flow? Pump fittings? Manifolds(all where 1")? Copper from heat source was 3/4" in all.
The manifolds are 1" for manufacturing reasons and for flow reasons. You cannot get equal pressure on all 1/2" spigots if you had, for example, a 1/2" header. The pressure drop would be so much that most of the fluid would go through the first one. If you have only 2 spigots, then a 3/4" header would work but not if you have many more. All the spigots have to "see" an equal pressure (equal supply) of fluid to draw from so you need a big enough cavity in the header that the pressure drop between the spigots is effectually zero.

The supply lines are a different story. They are sized for the amount of heat you need to move and the pumps ability to carry it within its pressure/flow curve. 3/4" piping works for most cases so it has become standard.
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-15, 10:04 AM   #528
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

That is very much how I am understanding it. It is advantageous to to have equal and adequate flow around the circulation loop. Which for the ones I looked over where scaled for systems far larger and more zones than what I will be using. I guess my main concern is that If I build a 1" circulation loop(pump, manifold, etc.) for just a two loop, one zone application that it won't be causing a problem if it is over sized. The small size of the circ. system will not be cost effected that much by being 1" over 3/4" connection copper(as I have both free, fittings will be a small extra on 1"). Still researching some pump suggestions Mike has given me so unsure yet what size connection they need.
Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-15, 08:42 PM   #529
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
Default

You will cause a problem with 1" piping all over and such a small necessary flow rate. The pump will not run in its "safe" part of the pump curve. Piping needs to be sized properly, both for proper flow (quantity) and resistance to flow (head). The upshot is that the pump may not last a long time if it is not sized for the conditions.
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-15, 10:18 PM   #530
Drake
DIY Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mpls,MN
Posts: 315
Thanks: 2
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I checked out the smaller pumps Mike suggested to me and the largest connections for them is 3/4". Would upsizing to 1" for just manifold be OK? Or should manifold main be 3/4 as well(just two 5/8 pex feeds outs w/ balance valves).

Drake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
diy, heat pump, hydronic, pex, radiant

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design