Mini Split install - Page 7

brogsie · 11-05-13, 04:20 PM

Life's Good! Looking forward to reading about your install.
Is it better to leave the MS running all day (when no one is home)or turn up and down similar to conventional heat? I'm having a tough time finding the sweet spot on how to run this thing.

pinballlooking · 11-08-13, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brogsie

Life's Good! Looking forward to reading about your install.
Is it better to leave the MS running all day (when no one is home)or turn up and down similar to conventional heat? I'm having a tough time finding the sweet spot on how to run this thing.

I don’t know the answer to this question. We are home all the time I work from home so the units stay on 24/7 here.

I need to get lots of work done today because I am going to start the install on the two new indoor units tonight. Put in the new breaker and wiring tomorrow.

Xringer · 11-08-13, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brogsie

Life's Good! Looking forward to reading about your install.
Is it better to leave the MS running all day (when no one is home)or turn up and down similar to conventional heat? I'm having a tough time finding the sweet spot on how to run this thing.

If the house is going to get pretty cold while you are at work, it might be good
to leave it on at a lower temp. If you have good insulation and some solar gain,
it might not use much power during the day.

I would try using 65F-67F, because you don't want the thermal mass temperature
of the contents & and internal structure of your home to drop down so low it becomes a real job to re-heat.

I only turn our Sanyos off when we are going to be back in a few hours.
Long before the house has a chance to cool off too much.
I look at the forecast and make a guess.

Today is pretty mild, so I just left them on at the sleep set-back 20C..
We went out for a little shopping trip and got some nice LED floods!
Came back 2 hours later and moved the the Sanyos back up to 21C.
(The remotes were displaying 22C, due to solar gain)..
~~

I had a real problem using larger set-backs on my Sanyos.

Because of an error in their firmware, trying to move the set-point too high,
would cause an over-current condition. So, we had to learn to only increase
the setpoint by one degree at a time.

For defrost mode, I had to install over-current 'breakers' to cut off
the current at exactly 10 amps.

jeff5may · 11-08-13, 01:40 PM

brogsie,

With most heat pump systems, especially air-source units, it's best to let them do their job around the clock. If you want to set them back to save energy, just go a couple of degrees down.

The reason behind this is as follows: they aren't like a gas furnace AT ALL.

In most homes, the gas furnace output is rated at 5 to 10 times (or more) the normal heat load of the house. When it operates, it blasts out the hot air with register temps above 125 degrees f (usually hotter) for a few minutes or less. It then shuts off, waiting for the cold to creep back in. On the coldest, windiest day in winter, the furnace is still supposed to have reserve capacity to beat the cold.

In contrast, a well-matched heat pump is "only" rated to satisfy heating demand through 90-95 percent of the heating season. When the heat pump operates, it merely warms the air (usually below 120 degrees f) and runs for a long time compared to a gas furnace. On that coldest day in winter, the heat pump will need some backup to keep the house warm. They don't work as well when the outdoor temperature drops drastically (usually in the evening when most day-shift workers are coming home), so in winter especially, that 15-20 degrees it heats up in the early afternoon is the best time of day for the unit to run.

If you set the unit back, say 8 degF through the warmest part of the day, you save some heat and money for a few hours while the house cools down. Then, at 5:30pm, you crank the unit up 8 degrees and it has to use 15 degree cooler outdoor air to warm up your home! That's an extra 23 degF it will be trying to regain, most likely at maximum output and minimum savings...

The newer heat pumps and thermostats learn how long it takes to heat the house, and how quickly it cools off in between heating cycles. They may also learn your habits and schedule. So messing with settings doesn't help all that well unless it's going to be a few days or longer before you want to heat or cool that zone.

brogsie · 11-08-13, 03:10 PM

Thanks Xringer and Jeff,
Makes sense to keep the house warm while the outside air temp is warmer.

Xringer · 11-08-13, 05:11 PM

If you do let it get too cool, you can always sit right under the indoor unit
and get a nice blast of warm air, while you wait for the room to warm up..

Our problem is over-heating during the summer. We take off early in the AM when it's nice and cool.
When we get home after lunch and it's 85F outdoors, it's over 90 in the house..

I've found that just leaving the den Sanyo at 75F when going out,
gives up a head start on cooling off when we get home.
It's nice to open the front door and not be hit was a wave of heat..
Plus, even 75F feels good, when it's nice dry air..

pinballlooking · 11-09-13, 07:16 AM

I have started the install. This location was much harder than the bedroom install.
I had to avoid the windows header. The ceiling is only 8’ so I had to install it as low on the window as I could.

There is a deck outside this window so the copper pipes will have to go through the deck and out to the outside unit.

Xringer · 11-09-13, 07:32 AM

Wow, that's a tight fit. Almost over-hanging the window.
A Sanyo indoor unit would have been resting on top the window moldings.
It would not have fit, without hacking down those moldings, flush with the wall.

pinballlooking · 11-09-13, 07:42 AM

This room was very hard to find a good place to install it. If you look close at the pictures I did have to cut the moldings to make it fit. A 9’ ceiling would have been so much simpler. The other issue was where I had to cut the hole and the width of the unit it pushed it right at the edge of the corner.
It was not an easy install location to install but it will be a very good place to have it put out heat and cooling.

Xringer · 11-09-13, 09:12 AM

Can't tell from the photos, so that means it's pretty unnoticeable/wife-friendly.

When I installed a Sanyo in the den, I didn't have any high up place to mount it..

So, I broke the number one rule of installing indoor MS units.. I put it near the floor..
I'm still waiting to see the problem..

11-08-13, 01:40 PM	#64
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	brogsie, With most heat pump systems, especially air-source units, it's best to let them do their job around the clock. If you want to set them back to save energy, just go a couple of degrees down. The reason behind this is as follows: they aren't like a gas furnace AT ALL. In most homes, the gas furnace output is rated at 5 to 10 times (or more) the normal heat load of the house. When it operates, it blasts out the hot air with register temps above 125 degrees f (usually hotter) for a few minutes or less. It then shuts off, waiting for the cold to creep back in. On the coldest, windiest day in winter, the furnace is still supposed to have reserve capacity to beat the cold. In contrast, a well-matched heat pump is "only" rated to satisfy heating demand through 90-95 percent of the heating season. When the heat pump operates, it merely warms the air (usually below 120 degrees f) and runs for a long time compared to a gas furnace. On that coldest day in winter, the heat pump will need some backup to keep the house warm. They don't work as well when the outdoor temperature drops drastically (usually in the evening when most day-shift workers are coming home), so in winter especially, that 15-20 degrees it heats up in the early afternoon is the best time of day for the unit to run. If you set the unit back, say 8 degF through the warmest part of the day, you save some heat and money for a few hours while the house cools down. Then, at 5:30pm, you crank the unit up 8 degrees and it has to use 15 degree cooler outdoor air to warm up your home! That's an extra 23 degF it will be trying to regain, most likely at maximum output and minimum savings... The newer heat pumps and thermostats learn how long it takes to heat the house, and how quickly it cools off in between heating cycles. They may also learn your habits and schedule. So messing with settings doesn't help all that well unless it's going to be a few days or longer before you want to heat or cool that zone. Last edited by jeff5may; 11-08-13 at 01:54 PM.. Reason: grammar

11-08-13, 05:11 PM	#66
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	If you do let it get too cool, you can always sit right under the indoor unit and get a nice blast of warm air, while you wait for the room to warm up.. Our problem is over-heating during the summer. We take off early in the AM when it's nice and cool. When we get home after lunch and it's 85F outdoors, it's over 90 in the house.. I've found that just leaving the den Sanyo at 75F when going out, gives up a head start on cooling off when we get home. It's nice to open the front door and not be hit was a wave of heat.. Plus, even 75F feels good, when it's nice dry air.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 11-09-13 at 07:27 AM..

11-09-13, 07:16 AM	#67
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	I have started the install. This location was much harder than the bedroom install. I had to avoid the windows header. The ceiling is only 8’ so I had to install it as low on the window as I could. There is a deck outside this window so the copper pipes will have to go through the deck and out to the outside unit. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by pinballlooking; 11-13-13 at 09:04 AM..

11-09-13, 07:32 AM	#68
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	How did you do that? Wow, that's a tight fit. Almost over-hanging the window. A Sanyo indoor unit would have been resting on top the window moldings. It would not have fit, without hacking down those moldings, flush with the wall. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

11-09-13, 07:42 AM	#69
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	This room was very hard to find a good place to install it. If you look close at the pictures I did have to cut the moldings to make it fit. A 9’ ceiling would have been so much simpler. The other issue was where I had to cut the hole and the width of the unit it pushed it right at the edge of the corner. It was not an easy install location to install but it will be a very good place to have it put out heat and cooling. Last edited by pinballlooking; 03-02-14 at 07:42 AM..

11-05-13, 04:20 PM	#61
brogsie Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: mass Posts: 51 Thanks: 26 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Life's Good! Looking forward to reading about your install. Is it better to leave the MS running all day (when no one is home)or turn up and down similar to conventional heat? I'm having a tough time finding the sweet spot on how to run this thing.

11-08-13, 03:10 PM	#65
brogsie Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: mass Posts: 51 Thanks: 26 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Xringer and Jeff, Makes sense to keep the house warm while the outside air temp is warmer.

11-09-13, 09:12 AM	#70
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Can't tell from the photos, so that means it's pretty unnoticeable/wife-friendly. When I installed a Sanyo in the den, I didn't have any high up place to mount it.. So, I broke the number one rule of installing indoor MS units.. I put it near the floor.. I'm still waiting to see the problem.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

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