Inefficient home or inefficient GSHP? - Page 7

mechanic · 12-28-14, 01:13 PM

Took some measurement, 12deg going out, -11deg coming in, 21deg in the house, is that about right for these exchangers? Feels like a lot of hot air coming out. It's a 6" duct pumping air out at that temp, although it's not running with the hp like I thought, just on its own controller and whenever you push a bathroom button

randen · 12-28-14, 01:22 PM

Yes

I actually have the same problem with our air exchange. I have noticed It cools the house when the weather is snapping cold. Its not efficient at heat exchange. But what can one expect from corrugated plastic.

I have it on a smart home system that only operates it during bathroom usage. to remove stale air and moisture from the shower.

I see the rim joist is sprayfoamed and the foundation.

Randen

Mikesolar · 12-28-14, 09:19 PM

Depending on the number of people in the house the air exchange really only needs to run a small amount of time. I would put it on a mechanical timer in parallel with the bathroom vent and start with 10min/hr and see how it goes. Watch for condensation and play by ear.

I have put in a number of VanEE Gold units as well and at best they are 65% efficient so if you have a lot of air volume for the number of people, you can reduce the run time. I am putting in a really good, albeit pricy, ERV ($3500) called Air Pahoda which is 90%+ efficient.

mechanic · 01-01-15, 12:51 PM

Took some pics with our new Flir One, incredible tool for the price!

Basement where I spray foamed, still doesn't look that well insulated, notice the
window with the broken lock

Water heaters, right tank is the dummy tank for the geothermal preheat, those lines are all insulated.

Deep freeze

Master bath

Kitchen

Living room vaulted ceiling

mechanic · 01-01-15, 12:55 PM

Outside garage!!

Inside same wall

Garage dog door

Walkout

Mikesolar · 01-01-15, 01:22 PM

There are a lot of leakage areas there. The cathedral ceiling, among other places, has some spots that look like the insulation is substandard. It should be a warranty question as it is a pre-manufactured home.

Is that bathroom wall an outside wall?

mechanic · 01-01-15, 01:46 PM

Yes it is an outside wall. I'd like to do a walk around a few other peoples homes to see how they compare with the same camera cause mine looks pretty scary... Many of the bigger issues are very hard to get at as well like the vaulted ceiling

ecomodded · 01-01-15, 01:56 PM

Mechanic , your thermal images turned out very clear , any tips for people who are using mobile phone's for thermal imagery ?

Mikesolar · 01-01-15, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanic

Yes it is an outside wall. I'd like to do a walk around a few other peoples homes to see how they compare with the same camera cause mine looks pretty scary... Many of the bigger issues are very hard to get at as well like the vaulted ceiling

No heating vent should be in an outside wall unless all the insulation is outside of it. You will lose at least 50% of your heat outside.

The vaulted ceiling is not so bad if you think outside of the box. First, they are, by code, the worst insulated type of roof and the hardest to vent properly. Unfortunately you will have to wait till next summer, but you can strip off the roofing, put 6" of ISO insulation tight on top of the current sheathing, put new 1/2" sheathing right on top with long screws and put new shingles on top.

The beauty of this is that 90% of the real insulation value is outside of the current building envelope so there will be no condensation issues IF you seal up all air vents that used to be above the old fibreglas insulation, which means getting rid of the ridge vent and soffitt vents just for the vaulted ceiling. It is not hard to do and it fixes a major part of the problem, long term.

mechanic · 01-01-15, 02:03 PM

It's pretty straight forward, there is a tuning button on the unit that seems to help when your changing distances or big temp changes but it is automatic for the most part. The trickiest part I found is that it auto compensates for the temp extremes in view, so for example in the bathroom pick with the hp running that wall looks a lot worse with the register included in the pick... There is lots of features I haven't touched yet, also 4 or 5 different apps from flir such as panorama and close ups.

12-28-14, 01:13 PM	#61
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Took some measurement, 12deg going out, -11deg coming in, 21deg in the house, is that about right for these exchangers? Feels like a lot of hot air coming out. It's a 6" duct pumping air out at that temp, although it's not running with the hp like I thought, just on its own controller and whenever you push a bathroom button Last edited by mechanic; 12-28-14 at 01:16 PM..

01-01-15, 12:51 PM	#64
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Took some pics with our new Flir One, incredible tool for the price! Basement where I spray foamed, still doesn't look that well insulated, notice the window with the broken lock Water heaters, right tank is the dummy tank for the geothermal preheat, those lines are all insulated. Deep freeze Master bath Kitchen Living room vaulted ceiling Last edited by mechanic; 01-01-15 at 12:58 PM..

01-01-15, 01:22 PM	#66
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	There are a lot of leakage areas there. The cathedral ceiling, among other places, has some spots that look like the insulation is substandard. It should be a warranty question as it is a pre-manufactured home. Is that bathroom wall an outside wall? Last edited by Mikesolar; 01-01-15 at 01:31 PM..

12-28-14, 01:22 PM	#62
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Yes I actually have the same problem with our air exchange. I have noticed It cools the house when the weather is snapping cold. Its not efficient at heat exchange. But what can one expect from corrugated plastic. I have it on a smart home system that only operates it during bathroom usage. to remove stale air and moisture from the shower. I see the rim joist is sprayfoamed and the foundation. Randen

12-28-14, 09:19 PM	#63
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	Depending on the number of people in the house the air exchange really only needs to run a small amount of time. I would put it on a mechanical timer in parallel with the bathroom vent and start with 10min/hr and see how it goes. Watch for condensation and play by ear. I have put in a number of VanEE Gold units as well and at best they are 65% efficient so if you have a lot of air volume for the number of people, you can reduce the run time. I am putting in a really good, albeit pricy, ERV ($3500) called Air Pahoda which is 90%+ efficient.

01-01-15, 12:55 PM	#65
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Outside garage!! Inside same wall Garage dog door Walkout

01-01-15, 01:46 PM	#67
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Yes it is an outside wall. I'd like to do a walk around a few other peoples homes to see how they compare with the same camera cause mine looks pretty scary... Many of the bigger issues are very hard to get at as well like the vaulted ceiling

01-01-15, 01:56 PM	#68
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Mechanic , your thermal images turned out very clear , any tips for people who are using mobile phone's for thermal imagery ?

01-01-15, 02:03 PM	#70
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	It's pretty straight forward, there is a tuning button on the unit that seems to help when your changing distances or big temp changes but it is automatic for the most part. The trickiest part I found is that it auto compensates for the temp extremes in view, so for example in the bathroom pick with the hp running that wall looks a lot worse with the register included in the pick... There is lots of features I haven't touched yet, also 4 or 5 different apps from flir such as panorama and close ups.