DX Geothermal Pond 4 ton Heat Pump

[MEMPHIS91]

UPDATE: And not one anyone is going to be pleased with. I REALLY wanted to do this project but I had to seriously reconsider things, I am trying to be as close to off grid as I can in 2 years. Making a power hungry heating/cooling monster just doesn't fit into the picture right now. Though if my solar array ever got big enough.......????? I do hope that this thread was helpful to those who are looking to do DX. It IS possible.
I am now looking more at this kinda idea (641) 472-4953 Natural Air Conditioning and Heating using the Earth!. I have access to free digging machine. But I will post a new thread on it soon. Sorry for the let down guys, thanks for all the input and time taken to help make some solid design plans.

[randen]

Memphis

You had many on the edge of their seats. I for one was holding my breath for the efficiency numbers.
But I understand completely I had to wrestle my heat-pumps to the ground to have one that worked to my satisfaction. Although the out-come was favourable the money I had saved was substantial but possibly my time could have been better spent in my work to make the money and save the trouble.

I know it flies in the face to the DIY mantra but my brother's mantra may say it better "PICK YOUR BATTLE"

Your work with the direct exchange water-heater is spectacular I'm thinking this is not the last from the likes of yourself.

Randen

[MEMPHIS91]

Thanks randen, it is not at all the last. I have at least one more build. It will be the most challenging yet, a freeze drier. I will start on it this fall.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by MEMPHIS91

UPDATE: And not one anyone is going to be pleased with. I REALLY wanted to do this project but I had to seriously reconsider things, I am trying to be as close to off grid as I can in 2 years. Making a power hungry heating/cooling monster just doesn't fit into the picture right now.

I think your idea is brilliant!

The rationale behind GSHP & DX, etc. is to lower the amount of energy (therefore cost) to accomplish heating and cooling needs.

If you have a way that uses NO ENERGY, you have every reason to be proud.

I suspect that earth tubes in MS may not give you all the heating & cooling comfort you desire, one of the issues is humidity. They will reduce temperature, but won't address humidity. But combining a modest heat pump (ASHP, GSHP, DX) with your earth tube system will address humidity, and you'll be way ahead.

-AC

[WyrTwister]

A lot of this went over my head , so please forgive me if you have already answered my questions .

You are talking about running refrigerant lines to the pond & then having looks ? All of copper ? That is not how I would do it .

I would buy a tank , fiberglass or plastic . Guessing 100 - 200 gallons . I would install a copper refrigeration look inside the tank , which would be full of pure water & enough antifreeze to prevent freezing ( I do not know what % that would be ? ) .

I would run a ditch to the pond and install plastic ( probably coil-able black plastic ) pipe loops in the pond . As much as I could afford . This would be a closed loop & the water / antifreeze would not mix with the pond water .

The water / antifreeze , from the tank would be pumped from the tank ( at the house ) through the plastic piping loop ( at / in the pond ) and return to the tank .

The copper refrigeration coil is submerged in the water / antifreeze . Heat transfer would take place between the copper refrigeration loop and the water / antifreeze .

You could conceivably use temper & pressure sensors + a microprocessor to control a VFD , which would control the speed of the pump motor . To give optimal performance of the compressor .

God bless
Wyr

[jeff5may]

Originally Posted by WyrTwister

A lot of this went over my head , so please forgive me if you have already answered my questions .

You are talking about running refrigerant lines to the pond & then having looks ? All of copper ? That is not how I would do it .

I would buy a tank , fiberglass or plastic . Guessing 100 - 200 gallons . I would install a copper refrigeration look inside the tank , which would be full of pure water & enough antifreeze to prevent freezing ( I do not know what % that would be ? ) .

I would run a ditch to the pond and install plastic ( probably coil-able black plastic ) pipe loops in the pond . As much as I could afford . This would be a closed loop & the water / antifreeze would not mix with the pond water .

The water / antifreeze , from the tank would be pumped from the tank ( at the house ) through the plastic piping loop ( at / in the pond ) and return to the tank .

The copper refrigeration coil is submerged in the water / antifreeze . Heat transfer would take place between the copper refrigeration loop and the water / antifreeze .

You could conceivably use temper & pressure sensors + a microprocessor to control a VFD , which would control the speed of the pump motor . To give optimal performance of the compressor .

God bless
Wyr

Been done already. Not as cheap to run, due to water pump power, nor as efficient.

There are three extra sets of losses in your proposal: the plastic pipe, the water to water exchanger, and the pump power consumption. All 3 lower COP.

Cost is comparable, substitute copper pipe for plastic to save upfront cost. Pay it back forever with a water pump.

[WyrTwister]

You are probably right . This is not my ball of wax .

My limited heat pump is with air to air .

Best of luck . :-)

God bless
Wyr

[daliti]

We installed 10 years ago a OEM-DX in a pond besides a factory. Have pictures of it but don't know how to post these. Straight copper coils on stainless steel headers on the bottom of the pond.

[daliti]

We installed 10 years ago a OEM-DX in a pond besides a factory. Have pictures of it but don't know how to post these. Straight copper coils on stainless steel headers on the bottom of the pond.We installed 10 years ago a OEM-DX in a pond besides a factory. Have pictures of it but don't know how to post these. Straight copper coils on stainless steel headers on the bottom of the pond. We've done it in fact several times.
Proposal in post 75 is not that good. The reasons for it explained in post 76 are very correct.
The only disadvantage you have is that you need more refrigerant.
We've installated machines on propylene and ethylen in other applications, so R290 will not be a problem. And environmental very friendly.
Be careful, install the machine outdoor and run the water to this outside unit because there's to much R290 in it to install it indoor. Look for regulations for explosion and flamability. Install nothing from electricty in the refrigerant section. Will it be a radiant heating as we do very often her? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread)

[daliti]

We installed 10 years ago a OEM-DX in a pond besides a factory. Have pictures of it but don't know how to post these. Straight copper coils on stainless steel headers on the bottom of the pond.We installed 10 years ago a OEM-DX in a pond besides a factory. Have pictures of it but don't know how to post these. Straight copper coils on stainless steel headers on the bottom of the pond. We've done it in fact several times.
Proposal in post 75 is not that good. The reasons for it explained in post 76 are very correct.
The only disadvantage you have is that you need more refrigerant.
We've installated machines on propylene and ethylen in other applications, so R290 will not be a problem. And environmental very friendly.
Be careful, install the machine outdoor and run the water to this outside unit because there's to much R290 in it to install it indoor. Look for regulations for explosion and flamability. Install nothing from electricty in the refrigerant section. Will it be a radiant heating as we do very often her? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread)