Preparing for Infrastructure Lapses... - Page 2

pinballlooking · 11-12-14, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoldwizard1

I drag generator of the garage every month or 2 and run it for 15-20 minutes. Biggest issue is keeping fresh gas in it, so I never fill it more than 1/4-1/2 full.

This is why I would like a PTO generator.

Yes that is the kit I will probably get off ebay their older one. My generator you don’t need to cut the support so the older kit should be fine.
I could just hook the generator up at my sub panel it already is setup to back feed 12.5 KW solar.I would just lock out the main breaker.

AC_Hacker · 11-12-14, 01:18 PM

I've been giving more thought to this project over morning coffee...

I'm thinking that the most important backup would be communications, since I'm using VOIP.

The most basic chain of communication devices is:

DSL Modem (12V)
VOIP (Ooma) (12V)
Wireless Router (12V)
Wired phone (no volts)

I could even relocate the Wireless Router to a lower level in the Triage hierarchy, because the convenience of Wi-Fi is not absolutely required. My current Wi-Fi router has a dual-processor, and a dual-band 3x3 radio. The power supply is 12V @ 2 Amp. It works great, but I could do without it in an outage.

So, I'm thinking that I could power the above equipment directly from a 12V battery. This would eliminate efficiency loss from the inverter, and also from the wall-warts.

I could run the communication chain off of a modest 12V battery all the time. Then if I had a trickle charger that was just large enough to keep the battery level up.

Seems like the lowest-tech, cheapest, simplest, most reliable way to keep my most basic communication link going.

Thoughts?

-AC

theoldwizard1 · 11-12-14, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

I could run the communication chain off of a modest 12V battery all the time. Then if I had a trickle charger that was just large enough to keep the battery level up.

A fully charged 12V lead acid battery is NOT 12V. It could easily be between 11V and 13V.

Also a lead acid battery does not start to "accept" a charge until at least 13.2V and some chargers (not a typical trickle chargers) will be over 14v.

I don't know how sensitive those pieces of electronics are to voltage.

Ormston · 11-12-14, 02:12 PM

From memory the magic numbers for keeping a battery topped up for standby use is
13.5-13.7V
I was going to do the 12v battery to router, nas and so on myself then upgraded my switch to one with a built in power supply so need 230V.

The easiest 12V backup setup I could find was picoUPS-120 12V DC micro UPS system / battery backup system

This handles battery charging and regulation to the load.

Steve

AC_Hacker · 11-12-14, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ormston

From memory the magic numbers for keeping a battery topped up for standby use is
13.5-13.7V
I was going to do the 12v battery to router, nas and so on myself then upgraded my switch to one with a built in power supply so need 230V.

The easiest 12V backup setup I could find was picoUPS-120 12V DC micro UPS system / battery backup system

This handles battery charging and regulation to the load.

Steve

Just perfect!

I now have one on the way.

Ormston Rules!!

-AC

theoldwizard1 · 11-12-14, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ormston

The easiest 12V backup setup I could find was picoUPS-120 12V DC micro UPS system / battery backup system

This handles battery charging and regulation to the load.

This does look nice !

I would put my AC power source on a cheap mechanical table lamp timer and set it to run 10-20 hours/day. This way the battery does actually get partially discharged and recharged.

NiHaoMike · 11-12-14, 03:41 PM

Pretty much all of the small network stuff that runs on 12V will be fine with a little higher. In fact, you'll probably find that a lot of the stock wall warts supply about 15V no load.
Easy way to float charge is to set it to 13.8V and forget it. Somewhat more elaborate is to hold it around 12.8-13.2V most of the time but boost it to 14.4V for about half an hour every few days.

I suggest looking at fossil fuel free setups such as solar/wind and stationary bicycles, to be used all the time. In other words, convert key functionality to being able to run off grid full time.

As Murphy says it, you'll probably find that once you have the right stuff to go (at least partly) off grid, the grid seems to become too reliable...

AC_Hacker · 11-12-14, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiHaoMike

...and stationary bicycles...

Sounds great!

Can you post some photos of your stationary bicycle setup??

-AC

NiHaoMike · 11-12-14, 04:41 PM

There's a whole thread about stationary bicycles as power sources, including my entry somewhere in there.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/applia...tto-style.html

where2 · 11-12-14, 09:00 PM

That 2A 12V current draw for the 3x3 Wi-Fi router would be challenging for a small PV setup. I tried running my Linksys WRT-54G from my 20W PV setup, and I could go 3-4 days before the low voltage cut-off on the charge controller kicked in. Obviously, I needed to use my 50W PV panel. One of these days, I'll make a roof mount for my 50W panel and get it powering some static loads around the house.

There's a reason why my main PV system is grid-tied. In 16+ years in this house, I've been without power for more than 24 hours on only 3 occasions. In 2 out of 3 cases, the eye of the storm passed right over my house. For times like that, there's a generator in the garage that had the fuel system completely drained and dried out. There's no fuel residue in the carburetor bowl, because I removed it and dried it out inside.

11-12-14, 01:18 PM	#12
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts	Triage I've been giving more thought to this project over morning coffee... I'm thinking that the most important backup would be communications, since I'm using VOIP. The most basic chain of communication devices is: DSL Modem (12V) VOIP (Ooma) (12V) Wireless Router (12V) Wired phone (no volts) I could even relocate the Wireless Router to a lower level in the Triage hierarchy, because the convenience of Wi-Fi is not absolutely required. My current Wi-Fi router has a dual-processor, and a dual-band 3x3 radio. The power supply is 12V @ 2 Amp. It works great, but I could do without it in an outage. So, I'm thinking that I could power the above equipment directly from a 12V battery. This would eliminate efficiency loss from the inverter, and also from the wall-warts. I could run the communication chain off of a modest 12V battery all the time. Then if I had a trickle charger that was just large enough to keep the battery level up. Seems like the lowest-tech, cheapest, simplest, most reliable way to keep my most basic communication link going. Thoughts? -AC __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 11-12-14 at 01:35 PM..

11-12-14, 03:41 PM	#17
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	Pretty much all of the small network stuff that runs on 12V will be fine with a little higher. In fact, you'll probably find that a lot of the stock wall warts supply about 15V no load. Easy way to float charge is to set it to 13.8V and forget it. Somewhat more elaborate is to hold it around 12.8-13.2V most of the time but boost it to 14.4V for about half an hour every few days. I suggest looking at fossil fuel free setups such as solar/wind and stationary bicycles, to be used all the time. In other words, convert key functionality to being able to run off grid full time. As Murphy says it, you'll probably find that once you have the right stuff to go (at least partly) off grid, the grid seems to become too reliable... __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

11-12-14, 04:41 PM	#19
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	There's a whole thread about stationary bicycles as power sources, including my entry somewhere in there. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/applia...tto-style.html __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

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11-12-14, 02:12 PM	#14
Ormston Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: UK Posts: 131 Thanks: 13 Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts	From memory the magic numbers for keeping a battery topped up for standby use is 13.5-13.7V I was going to do the 12v battery to router, nas and so on myself then upgraded my switch to one with a built in power supply so need 230V. The easiest 12V backup setup I could find was picoUPS-120 12V DC micro UPS system / battery backup system This handles battery charging and regulation to the load. Steve

11-12-14, 09:00 PM	#20
where2 DIY Geek Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 401 Thanks: 74 Thanked 83 Times in 73 Posts	That 2A 12V current draw for the 3x3 Wi-Fi router would be challenging for a small PV setup. I tried running my Linksys WRT-54G from my 20W PV setup, and I could go 3-4 days before the low voltage cut-off on the charge controller kicked in. Obviously, I needed to use my 50W PV panel. One of these days, I'll make a roof mount for my 50W panel and get it powering some static loads around the house. There's a reason why my main PV system is grid-tied. In 16+ years in this house, I've been without power for more than 24 hours on only 3 occasions. In 2 out of 3 cases, the eye of the storm passed right over my house. For times like that, there's a generator in the garage that had the fuel system completely drained and dried out. There's no fuel residue in the carburetor bowl, because I removed it and dried it out inside.