HVAC Blower motor. - Page 3

jeff5may · 11-12-13, 11:46 AM

It's not that I don't like home automation. It's kind of like the consumer electronics industry: there are so many different standards and protocols, most of which don't play well together. And they keep adding new ones every couple of years.

You start out with one flavor of system, and from then on, you're pretty much stuck with that flavor. To get some new functionality, you HAVE TO buy unit x. But unit x only does this one thing. To do something else, you must buy unit Y. To get x and y to talk, you have to buy unit z. To control everything, you must purchase an xyz module, not abc or jklm flavor. For every separate task (or group of tasks) you want your system to do, you must buy that flavor of unit. Unlike generic controls and hardware, each unit is not 5 dollars or 15 dollars, it's 20 dollars or 200 dollars.

Just when you think you have your system completed, it becomes obsolete when the manufacturer introduces a new piece of hardware that does something better.

When I purchase a piece of hardware, I expect it to be useful for the forseeable future. I expect there to be some kind of industry support for the device. If something goes wrong,and I need to call my local pro for service, the guy in the van should be able to tell what it is and want to touch it. Especially with programmable devices, I expect them to be somewhat generic and scalable. If i want to expand my capabilities down the road, I shouldn't have to start all over. If I buy a different brand of hardware, there should be a way to make it work with what I have without shelling out more cheddar.

I am glad that the majority of home automation systems have fallen back on ip-based communication standards. This makes them much more cross-functional if you can speak network. Hopefully they will all jump on the wagon, and all the stuff will be addressable and controllable by some kind of network interface with a less than stellar amount of effort.

pinballlooking · 11-12-13, 12:06 PM

Yes there are a ton of options. I have had Insteon for a little over 3 years. It just works install it and just use it. No server or computer running required. Power goes out no issues comes back on everything works. It is all installed by DIY guys. The devices are not cheap but there is nothing to say you need to automate your whole house. There is very low overhead on their comms the light does not have a delay turring on because you son is watching a movie across the net.

jeff5may · 11-12-13, 01:03 PM

So do you have an insteon control device that will tell the remote switcher how to act? This would be easy to implement. Just program the controller to cycle the switchbox however you want it to. Connect the switchbox to a relay or contactor. Connect the contacts to your blower motor, and VOILA! Total control, independent of the central air system. If you connect it to a low speed tap, the blower will run at low speed whenever you tell it to. If the central air system calls for a higher speed, the motor will run at that higher speed.

If you can run your insteon switchbox off the same power source as the blower motor, you wouldn't absolutely have to have a relay isolating the switchbox from the motor. This is a BIG "if", as I cannot see what you have.

pinballlooking · 11-12-13, 02:19 PM

The power the goes to the blower/unit is on an on/off switch. When you are under the house you can turn off the power under the house and work on it. I could use that power for the switch box.
If my switch box is telling it to run slow and the AC kicks on telling it to run high it will just run on high?

It would have power at two taps at that point low and high.

NiHaoMike · 11-12-13, 02:37 PM

A standard PSC motor would burn out under that condition but the ECM replacement should operate fine. Not sure what it would actually interpret it as. The install manual might give some clues.

pinballlooking · 11-12-13, 03:25 PM

The manual did not really say what would happen so I called tech support. They said as long as I was using the same 115v source. That it was no problem powering say low and high at the same time.
It would just run at the highest speed. So that is good news.

If you power 3,4 tap at the same time it will recalibrate itself but I am not going to do that.

pinballlooking · 11-24-13, 10:37 PM

I installed my new ECM Drop-in replacement blower motor SNTech green motor.
I also wired up an Insteon controlled switch that goes to the low speed tap.
I can control the fan with my home automation.

I really think this will only work in the summer. The duct work is in the crawl space and it is cold. The heat in the house gets cooled off before it gets to my boys room or any other rooms.

This will work good in the summer to help move the cool air to their rooms.

I also sealed up the duct work before I installed the motor. The duct work was pretty good but the metal work had actual duct tape in places. I remover it and used the foil tape that is listed for ducts. I ran the fan on high and found the leaks and sealed them up.
We were losing a lot of heat and AC in the crawl space I should have done this a long time ago.

I am sure I will save more from this than the new motor.
The new motor does soft starts so if I have to use my generator this winter it should run the heat.

I will take some TED5000 readings tomorrow to show the wattage differences between the old motor and the new motor.

Daox · 11-25-13, 08:22 AM

A good idea would probably be to insulate the duct work in your crawlspace. I know I should do this with the duct work in my basement. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

pinballlooking · 11-25-13, 08:38 AM

I am not a HVAC guy so these descriptions will sound funny. The main parts are long big metal pipes these are insulated. They have flexible ducts coming off the main to each room most are not real long a couple are longer. The flexible ducts are insulated also. I just think that when I run the just the fan and I have the rooms with the returns at say 74 the metal duct work cools the air to the 60 something. The air needs to be hotter to heat the metal duct work. My 100btu gas furnace has no trouble doing this but I don’t want to run it much.
This should work out in the summer to move the AC around.
I am not sure extra insulation would even help this issue.

Is worth it to insulate seal the crawl space? Right now mine just has vents.

Servicetech · 11-25-13, 05:38 PM

Look into duct mastic in buckets if you REALLY want a permanent seal. It's messy to put on but lasts the life of the ductwork. You can get into the small spaces ductork won't fit. Use the silver tape for large gaps and mastic over it.

11-12-13, 11:46 AM	#21
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	It's not that I don't like home automation. It's kind of like the consumer electronics industry: there are so many different standards and protocols, most of which don't play well together. And they keep adding new ones every couple of years. You start out with one flavor of system, and from then on, you're pretty much stuck with that flavor. To get some new functionality, you HAVE TO buy unit x. But unit x only does this one thing. To do something else, you must buy unit Y. To get x and y to talk, you have to buy unit z. To control everything, you must purchase an xyz module, not abc or jklm flavor. For every separate task (or group of tasks) you want your system to do, you must buy that flavor of unit. Unlike generic controls and hardware, each unit is not 5 dollars or 15 dollars, it's 20 dollars or 200 dollars. Just when you think you have your system completed, it becomes obsolete when the manufacturer introduces a new piece of hardware that does something better. When I purchase a piece of hardware, I expect it to be useful for the forseeable future. I expect there to be some kind of industry support for the device. If something goes wrong,and I need to call my local pro for service, the guy in the van should be able to tell what it is and want to touch it. Especially with programmable devices, I expect them to be somewhat generic and scalable. If i want to expand my capabilities down the road, I shouldn't have to start all over. If I buy a different brand of hardware, there should be a way to make it work with what I have without shelling out more cheddar. I am glad that the majority of home automation systems have fallen back on ip-based communication standards. This makes them much more cross-functional if you can speak network. Hopefully they will all jump on the wagon, and all the stuff will be addressable and controllable by some kind of network interface with a less than stellar amount of effort. Last edited by jeff5may; 11-12-13 at 11:51 AM.. Reason: words

11-12-13, 02:37 PM	#25
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	A standard PSC motor would burn out under that condition but the ECM replacement should operate fine. Not sure what it would actually interpret it as. The install manual might give some clues. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

11-24-13, 10:37 PM	#27
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	I installed my new ECM Drop-in replacement blower motor SNTech green motor. I also wired up an Insteon controlled switch that goes to the low speed tap. I can control the fan with my home automation. I really think this will only work in the summer. The duct work is in the crawl space and it is cold. The heat in the house gets cooled off before it gets to my boys room or any other rooms. This will work good in the summer to help move the cool air to their rooms. I also sealed up the duct work before I installed the motor. The duct work was pretty good but the metal work had actual duct tape in places. I remover it and used the foil tape that is listed for ducts. I ran the fan on high and found the leaks and sealed them up. We were losing a lot of heat and AC in the crawl space I should have done this a long time ago. I am sure I will save more from this than the new motor. The new motor does soft starts so if I have to use my generator this winter it should run the heat. I will take some TED5000 readings tomorrow to show the wattage differences between the old motor and the new motor. Last edited by pinballlooking; 11-24-13 at 10:43 PM..

11-25-13, 08:22 AM	#28
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	A good idea would probably be to insulate the duct work in your crawlspace. I know I should do this with the duct work in my basement. I just haven't gotten to it yet. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-25-13, 08:38 AM	#29
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	I am not a HVAC guy so these descriptions will sound funny. The main parts are long big metal pipes these are insulated. They have flexible ducts coming off the main to each room most are not real long a couple are longer. The flexible ducts are insulated also. I just think that when I run the just the fan and I have the rooms with the returns at say 74 the metal duct work cools the air to the 60 something. The air needs to be hotter to heat the metal duct work. My 100btu gas furnace has no trouble doing this but I don’t want to run it much. This should work out in the summer to move the AC around. I am not sure extra insulation would even help this issue. Is worth it to insulate seal the crawl space? Right now mine just has vents. Last edited by pinballlooking; 11-25-13 at 09:17 AM..

11-12-13, 12:06 PM	#22
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Yes there are a ton of options. I have had Insteon for a little over 3 years. It just works install it and just use it. No server or computer running required. Power goes out no issues comes back on everything works. It is all installed by DIY guys. The devices are not cheap but there is nothing to say you need to automate your whole house. There is very low overhead on their comms the light does not have a delay turring on because you son is watching a movie across the net.

11-12-13, 01:03 PM	#23
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	So do you have an insteon control device that will tell the remote switcher how to act? This would be easy to implement. Just program the controller to cycle the switchbox however you want it to. Connect the switchbox to a relay or contactor. Connect the contacts to your blower motor, and VOILA! Total control, independent of the central air system. If you connect it to a low speed tap, the blower will run at low speed whenever you tell it to. If the central air system calls for a higher speed, the motor will run at that higher speed. If you can run your insteon switchbox off the same power source as the blower motor, you wouldn't absolutely have to have a relay isolating the switchbox from the motor. This is a BIG "if", as I cannot see what you have.

11-12-13, 02:19 PM	#24
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	The power the goes to the blower/unit is on an on/off switch. When you are under the house you can turn off the power under the house and work on it. I could use that power for the switch box. If my switch box is telling it to run slow and the AC kicks on telling it to run high it will just run on high? It would have power at two taps at that point low and high.

11-12-13, 03:25 PM	#26
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	The manual did not really say what would happen so I called tech support. They said as long as I was using the same 115v source. That it was no problem powering say low and high at the same time. It would just run at the highest speed. So that is good news. If you power 3,4 tap at the same time it will recalibrate itself but I am not going to do that.

11-25-13, 05:38 PM	#30
Servicetech Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Moore Oklahoma Posts: 267 Thanks: 108 Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts	Look into duct mastic in buckets if you REALLY want a permanent seal. It's messy to put on but lasts the life of the ductwork. You can get into the small spaces ductork won't fit. Use the silver tape for large gaps and mastic over it.