Using attic heat to warm up basement - Page 6

Xringer · 11-20-13, 03:24 PM

Cool and sunny today..

I didn't understand what happened, since I didn't notice any clouds coming over.
Then, I took a close look at the outdoor temperature plot.
When it got up to 35F, it didn't keep climbing. It went down a bit and stayed flat for a while.
That's when the setpoint kicked in and shut down the fans for a while (15 minutes cycle).
The basement temperature gain was only 1.1F during the fan run.. Better than nothing..

Xringer · 11-24-13, 03:08 PM

No attic hot air to day.. The outdoor temperature was too low
and the wind seemed to be keeping the roof cool.
Outdoor scan of the roof after lunch, showed 65deg F.
Inside the attic stayed too cold for fan activation.

I just looked again and the Basement has finally changed, it's now 54.5F,
after all day long at 54.6F..

Check out that Outdoor temperature! Not your average day.. Chilly!

Here we are at 16 hours into the day and have used 17.4 kWh to heat the house..
We did get a bit of solar in the south facing windows..

Xringer · 12-12-13, 04:25 PM

After we got back from errands and lunch, we noticed the basement ventilation was running..

It was 25F outside! But, there wasn't any snow on the roof.
I turned on the logging and captured the tail-end of the fan run..

I think the total run time was about an hour.. Not much, but it did put
a little fresh air down in the basement.

At 17:17, it's 35.4 F in the attic, and dropping rapidly..

Not sure, but the hot water tank might be loosing heat a little faster
when it's only about 50F in the basement.
(Or, my wife was washing something in hotwater)..

Tomorrow's forecast is for Partly Cloudy & Mostly Cloudy.
After that, it's looking like a weekend of snow and cold..

I'll be running the A7 for sure again..

ecomodded · 12-12-13, 07:14 PM

Could add more wrap to your water heater to combat the cool environment it winters in.

Xringer · 12-12-13, 07:42 PM

That was a consideration when I made the install..
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/22725-post13.html

I'll revisit the idea..

ecomodded · 12-13-13, 09:01 AM

that is very strange that the water tank manufacturer says - Do not add insulation , it will do no good - Something fishy in Denmark.
I know you know that
heat storage is very depending on the insulating factor of its enclosure the very nature of its function indicates more is always better.

Xringer · 12-13-13, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecomodded

that is very strange that the water tank manufacturer says - Do not add insulation , it will do no good - Something fishy in Denmark.
I know you know that
heat storage is very depending on the insulating factor of its enclosure the very nature of its function indicates more is always better.

They may have measured or calculated, and found there would be very little heat loss prevention.

My main sticking point is covering up the two access panels.
Making my power connections and heat sensors inaccessible.
So, I would have to use a thermal wrap with large holes in it.

The other thing, is water leaks. If a small water leak occurs
in a covered area, or an area that isn't easily visible, it can go for weeks undetected.
I had that problem on a old HS Tarm boiler and it ended up costing me a lot of money..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...L/DSCF0149.jpg
A large plate was fabricated and used to replace the rusted out area.
It had been leaking for years, behind a steel cover and insulation.
It never over-flowed onto the floor. So, it was never seen,
until the damage was done..

ecomodded · 12-18-13, 01:51 AM

I just turned my water heater down rather then wrap it.
Turning it down really cuts energy consumption, one layer of wrap may not be to effective any ways..

Xringer · 12-18-13, 09:27 AM

If I'm going to spent more money on more insulation, it's going into the attic..

Since I can now log attic temps and outdoor temps, I can see there is a lot of waste up there..
I'm getting a new thermal leak detector as my Ecorenovator prize..
It's first task will be up in the attic..

Xringer · 12-18-13, 05:14 PM

We've been using solar for hotwater most of the time and not running the A7.

Today, we had a good work out moving snow around. Afterwards, it was shower time.

After taking our showers, I noticed something odd..
Our water tank temp was down to 73F !!

(Note the attic temp.. It's flat because the roof is under a few inches of snow).

How can that be? The water has to be hot! My wife would have screamed..

I checked the HW in the kitchen sink.. Still over 100F..

But, the fish tank temp display on the tank said 21C!

I figured a pipe was leaking cold water into the senor area..
So, I had to inspect both sensors.. Nothing odd found,
but the tank didn't feel warm.. So, the sensors were right.?.

After a while, it came to me. The hot water we were using was from the Top of the tank.
We didn't use it all. But enough to allow the cold water to rise up to
the sensors, which are installed near the top of the tank..

11-20-13, 03:24 PM	#51
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Got an off-on cycle! Cool and sunny today.. I didn't understand what happened, since I didn't notice any clouds coming over. Then, I took a close look at the outdoor temperature plot. When it got up to 35F, it didn't keep climbing. It went down a bit and stayed flat for a while. That's when the setpoint kicked in and shut down the fans for a while (15 minutes cycle). The basement temperature gain was only 1.1F during the fan run.. Better than nothing.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

11-24-13, 03:08 PM	#52
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Sunny, but cold and windy.. No attic hot air to day.. The outdoor temperature was too low and the wind seemed to be keeping the roof cool. Outdoor scan of the roof after lunch, showed 65deg F. Inside the attic stayed too cold for fan activation. I just looked again and the Basement has finally changed, it's now 54.5F, after all day long at 54.6F.. Check out that Outdoor temperature! Not your average day.. Chilly! Here we are at 16 hours into the day and have used 17.4 kWh to heat the house.. We did get a bit of solar in the south facing windows.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

12-12-13, 04:25 PM	#53
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Very cold and sunny After we got back from errands and lunch, we noticed the basement ventilation was running.. It was 25F outside! But, there wasn't any snow on the roof. I turned on the logging and captured the tail-end of the fan run.. I think the total run time was about an hour.. Not much, but it did put a little fresh air down in the basement. At 17:17, it's 35.4 F in the attic, and dropping rapidly.. Not sure, but the hot water tank might be loosing heat a little faster when it's only about 50F in the basement. (Or, my wife was washing something in hotwater).. Tomorrow's forecast is for Partly Cloudy & Mostly Cloudy. After that, it's looking like a weekend of snow and cold.. I'll be running the A7 for sure again.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

12-12-13, 07:42 PM	#55
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	That was a consideration when I made the install.. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/22725-post13.html I'll revisit the idea.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

12-18-13, 09:27 AM	#59
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	If I'm going to spent more money on more insulation, it's going into the attic.. Since I can now log attic temps and outdoor temps, I can see there is a lot of waste up there.. I'm getting a new thermal leak detector as my Ecorenovator prize.. It's first task will be up in the attic.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

12-12-13, 07:14 PM	#54
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Could add more wrap to your water heater to combat the cool environment it winters in.

12-13-13, 09:01 AM	#56
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	that is very strange that the water tank manufacturer says - Do not add insulation , it will do no good - Something fishy in Denmark. I know you know that heat storage is very depending on the insulating factor of its enclosure the very nature of its function indicates more is always better.

12-18-13, 01:51 AM	#58
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	I just turned my water heater down rather then wrap it. Turning it down really cuts energy consumption, one layer of wrap may not be to effective any ways..

12-18-13, 05:14 PM	#60
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Solar shower surprize! We've been using solar for hotwater most of the time and not running the A7. Today, we had a good work out moving snow around. Afterwards, it was shower time. After taking our showers, I noticed something odd.. Our water tank temp was down to 73F !! (Note the attic temp.. It's flat because the roof is under a few inches of snow). How can that be? The water has to be hot! My wife would have screamed.. I checked the HW in the kitchen sink.. Still over 100F.. But, the fish tank temp display on the tank said 21C! I figured a pipe was leaking cold water into the senor area.. So, I had to inspect both sensors.. Nothing odd found, but the tank didn't feel warm.. So, the sensors were right.?. After a while, it came to me. The hot water we were using was from the Top of the tank. We didn't use it all. But enough to allow the cold water to rise up to the sensors, which are installed near the top of the tank.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..