Gree Neo units on sale..

[Xringer]

Single Zone Ductless Mini Split Systems : Gree and NEO

Seems like the mark-down on these is a lot more than other models..
Some of them look like half off.?.

[philb]

Thanks for the heads up Rich.
I noticed the Gree NEO12HP115V1A 12,000 btu units do not come with a line set. Is it advisable to buy the line set or can one be made from copper rolls from HD or Lowes? I'm in the learning stage.

[Xringer]

My new 25' lineset came from ComfortUp. I assume they were made by some vendor somewhere.
The insulation was pretty short on the 5/8" line and the flares weren't that great..
But the Gree system seem to be very nice. I just installed a Gree Crown system,
(started it up today) and so far I'm really liking it.

Not sure if the copper tube from HD or Lowes is the 'right stuff'..
I have only purchased 2 systems and both came with line sets.
One line set for a repaired system came from Ebay..
It was made of aluminum with copper tube bonded to the ends..
It's been in service for a few years now, without any leaks..

Some mini-splits ship with two connectors that have been placed on
the service ports, to protect the threads. Plus my Crown system came
with two more connectors in the manual bag..
So, I could have made some DIY lines.. Just would have needed the copper
tubes and the insulation..


Just looked this up and it's less than $80 shipped.. Seems like a good price.
https://www.amazon.com/Line-12000-18...ct_top?ie=UTF8
"Line Set 12000/18000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner (1/4” X 1/2") -
All Copper (16 Ft) with Insulation - Flared Fittings/Quick Connect "

[AC_Hacker]

I was looking over these specs on the Gree NEO09230V-143815

GREE Neo 9,000 BTU Ductless Mini Split A/C FREE 15' Line Set

If you intend to use a Mini-Split when your most challenging season is summer, then the SEER rating make the best performance-identifier for comparison.

But if you intend to use a Mini-Split when your most challenging season is winter you would use HSPF (Heating Season Performance Factor) instead.

Looking at the specs, it seems odd that the rated capacity is the same for heating and cooling, since in cooling, the unit has to dump the heat from the compressor, along with its real work which is cooling the target area. Likewise, these units advantageously utilize the heat from the compressor when heating. So, it just doesn't add up.

Also, when looking over the specs for heating (my intended use) the COP is very important. The specs site COP=3.8.

However, I can calculate the heating season COP by dividing the HPSF (9.8) by 3.412.

When I do this COP = 9.8 / 3.412

I get 2.87221570926143 = COP = 2.9

That's big difference.

COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.

These are very squishy specs.

-AC

[Xringer]

I think it says the same thing (3.8) here too:
http://17uo7e27w1attiybs22of10v.wpen...e-V2.2-Web.pdf

[MN Renovator]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.

Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.

[pinballlooking]

Originally Posted by MN Renovator

Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.

Where you are the crown series is the only one you would even consider.
I would only look at their Terra and Crown series.
The crown series has a two stage inverter compressor.

[jeff5may]

I am curious what a two stage inverter compressor has inside it. Does the thing revolve slower at stage one, using less energy in low stage? Or does some mechanism inside change the displacement or volumetric efficiency somehow? The answer seems elusive, to say the least.

Regarding low outdoor temperature operation, there are not a whole lot of heat pumps that do well near or below frost conditions. Most of the more economical units are designed with primarily cooling in mind, and are meant to provide supplemental heating only. Lots of these units go into "standby" or "backup heat" mode when outdoor temperatures approach freezing. Below this outdoor temperature, if they provide heat, it is done with low efficiency resistive heat strips, just like nearly every fullsize split heat pump on the market.

If you are looking for a mini split heat pump that does relatively well below 0 degF, you have your work cut out for you. Up until the last decade, only a handful of units were available at all. Of these few, the jury was split as to the effective heating ability versus efficiency at frigid temperatures. Prospective buyers had to choose between capacity loss at decent efficiency or efficiency loss at decent capacity. The two that come to mind are the Fujitsu halcyon, which had a linear capacity loss as outdoor temperature dropped, and the Mitsubishi hyper-heat, which attempted to maintain BTU output by running the compressor as fast as it could. The Mitsubishi also had supplemental heat strips to keep the discharge air temperature high when the compressor could only supply "warmed" air.

Looking at today's offerings, the units that are designed for ultra-low ambient temperature heating mode operation nearly all boast SEER ratings close to 30. They are not your everyday, general purpose mini-split units (like the NEO series). Most customers still aren't installing a mini-split as a primary system, and aren't trying to pay double for a unit is stout enough to act like one. I would be surprised to see an ASHP that had a COP of 3 at such low outdoor temperatures.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker:
COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.

Originally Posted by MN Renovator

Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.

Please tell you are joking.

-AC

[MN Renovator]

"Please tell you are joking.
-AC"

Which part? COPs run into the sub 2 COP range when things are actually cold. Not to mention defrost cycle losses.

Originally Posted by pinballlooking

Where you are the crown series is the only one you would even consider.
I would only look at their Terra and Crown series.
The crown series has a two stage inverter compressor.

I'm not sure how well the Gree units handle deep winter. I see specs provided by a manufacturer but it's hard to compare that when it's not a third party testing multiple units with the same method. I'm looking at the Fujitsu and Mitsubishi units.