EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Conservation
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-12, 10:53 AM   #1
Daox
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
Default Looks like cellulose got an R-value increase

I was just looking over the list of different material's r-values on a site I like to go for for r-values:

ColoradoENERGY.org - R-Value Table

I happened to notice that loose cellulose is now rated at 3.6-3.7! I thought it used to be 3.2. Apparently a study was done and it found cellulose to be better than before. They also tested dense pack which got a little boost too to 3.8-3.9.

Here is the study that was done:

http://www.coloradoenergy.org/procor..._Truncated.pdf

Looks like we now have yet another (or a better) reason to go with cellulose.

__________________
Current project -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Daox is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
buffalobillpatrick (09-11-14), Ryland (01-06-12)
Old 01-06-12, 01:07 PM   #2
MN Renovator
Less usage=Cheaper bills
 
MN Renovator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 939
Thanks: 41
Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Whether or not it became better, it still would be on top(IMHO). Versus fiberglass, dense pack stops the airflow within it that makes fiberglass not work so well. Versus foam, a slightly bigger cavity in new construction doesn't cost much but the foam sure does, not to mention the care it takes to actually foam it and the concern over the guy who has to chip it away to install some electrical or plumbing fixture in a wall. I'm probably just preaching to the choir. All insulations have their place where they are appropriate though.
MN Renovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-12, 12:44 AM   #3
Piwoslaw
Super Moderator
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 960
Thanks: 188
Thanked 110 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Looks like we now have yet another (or a better) reason to go with cellulose.
... Said the guy with cellulose in his avatar
__________________
Ecorenovation - the bottomless piggy bank that tries to tame the energy hog.
Piwoslaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-12, 06:25 AM   #4
S-F
You Ain't Me
 
S-F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northampton MA
Posts: 662
Thanks: 6
Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts
Default

My understanding of the R value of cellulose is that it's about R 3.4 for dense pack and a little higher for loose fill. Loose fill is higher before it settles also. I'm getting this from Bill Hulstrunk, the engineer at National Fiber. Wouldn't surprise me if there were new evidence though. NF is less than 10 miles away from me so I've worked with Bill Hulstrunk on more than one occasion when building inspectors are being crotchety. Great guy and a great product. More fuzzy and less dusty than the stuff they have at Home Depot. Green fiber or something I believe it's called. The bag looks like a NF bag so I'm always fooled.
S-F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-14, 01:40 AM   #5
gtojohn
Journeyman EcoRenovator
 
gtojohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 314
Thanks: 39
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Default

I thought cellulose wasn't recommended for exterior walls b/c moisture retention. aren't most batts for 2x4 walls rated r-13? I just saw rockwool batts at the store, which I thought was banned or no longer in use. They touted r-15 for 2x4 and claimed "superior fire protection". All I know is blown in rockwool is some of the worst stuff to work in and disturb in an attic.
gtojohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-14, 10:22 AM   #6
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtojohn View Post
...I just saw rockwool batts at the store, which I thought was banned or no longer in use. They touted r-15 for 2x4 and claimed "superior fire protection"...
I just insulated my back room with batting made from Roxul, which is a brand of rock wool. It is great stuff to work with, and it can be shaped quite easily by cutting with a serrated knife. It is quite dense, and when you push it into a stud wall space, you can feel the whoosh of air that is being displaced.

I found that mineral wool had none of the 'fiber glass itching' experience. However, I would advise wearing a partical mask when working with it, as a precaution.

I just did a Google search for "rock wool banned", and didn't turn up anything of significance.

What was your source for that piece of information???

And when you said, "touted r-15", I take it that you have information that suggests otherwise???

Could you please share your source of that information.

And your comment, "...claimed "superior fire protection"", was curious, too.


The gas stove I have in my kitchen is a used commercial stove, the burners are 24,000 BTUs each. In the photo above, I placed a heavy stainless steel screen on the burner and waited a few seconds for it to come up to full temp, then I took a sample of the mineral wool that I have in the back room, and put it on the red-hot screen. The photo was taken after 5 minutes of the mineral wool sample being on the red hot screen. During that 5 minute time, I saw no change what so ever to the mineral wool sample.

If you have any actual information that would bring into question the claim that mineral wool "offers superior fire protection", I'd be very interested to see it.

Other than that, I can't see that there is any substance at all to what you just posted.

Best,

-AC
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	roxul-fire.jpg
Views:	942
Size:	85.8 KB
ID:	4579  
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 08-22-14 at 10:46 AM..
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-14, 08:37 AM   #7
gtojohn
Journeyman EcoRenovator
 
gtojohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 314
Thanks: 39
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Default

AC hacker, I have no problem with rockwool, its generally more insulative than fiberglass. In fact I brought it up as an alternative to cellulose. Blown in rockwool from the 60's and 70's is some harsh stuff to disturb. The dark gray blown in rock wool fibers seem sharper, the dust is way more irritating and there's usually some shiny glass like shards mixed in. I haven't seen blown in rockwool at big box stores for sale in at least 10 years but I haven't been looking either. From wikipedia I found "some types of mineral wool are considered a possible carcinogen to humans, similar to asbestos" but thats probably similar to the california prop 65 warning I see sometimes on fiberglass. When I see 2x4 walls and batts I usually think r-13. Probably because thats the minimum code and seems to be the only thing people want to build to. I was actually happy to see r-15 batts for 2x4 walls for my personal projects. The packaging I saw with "r15 and superior fire protection" was in really large print, it was definitely touting. Tout Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
v. verb

To promote or praise energetically; publicize.

To solicit or importune.
gtojohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-14, 08:48 AM   #8
gtojohn
Journeyman EcoRenovator
 
gtojohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 314
Thanks: 39
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Default

If you check the link Daox shared, at ColoradoENERGY.org - R-Value Table, they rate fiberglass batts 3.14-4.30 r per inch and rock wool batts at 3.14-4.00 r. I noticed they don't have a listing for dense pack blow ins.
gtojohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-14, 10:12 AM   #9
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

gtojohn,

Don't worry, it's only credibility.

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-14, 08:46 PM   #10
NeilBlanchard
Journeyman EcoRenovator
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 383
Thanks: 78
Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts
Default

High density cellulose doesn't burn in the wall. And it quickly distributes any liquid water so that it evaporates and won't cause problems. For new construction, that is the way I would go.

NeilBlanchard is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
buffalobillpatrick (09-11-14)
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design