Conservation in the home is meaningless

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

That's inaccurate. Private users/homes account for about 40-50% of all energy consumed in the U.S. Passenger vehicles use most of the oil in the U.S. (probably 20+%) and about half off all the electricity generated (another ~20%), plus whatever is required for heating.

P.S. I imagine this would be a great angle for someone running a "false flag" operation on behalf of some collection of fossil fuel companies.

Oh boy, it's nutty to get somebody who sounds smart yet blows a load of misinformation all over.

You want a percentages, check this one out:
How We Use Energy — The National Academies

So they're saying 41% homes 31% industry. Got me there. Oh dear. And, who pollutes the most? You and I or industries?

So, not only do I doubt the "official" percentages and bet they're skewed to represent the scenario they've selected for y'all to swallow, but even if industries use a little less these greasy money grubbing organizations more than make up for it in pollution and avoiding taxes.

I wonder how much energy they waste just flying their executives around in jets? And what about those guys mansions? Do those count as homes?

That throws the whole thing off. I'm talking about regular people, not wasteful rich or the wanna-bes.

Young people probably account for more energy waste than a simple household.

It's mean and rude to tell regular people to buy crap, life soon to be outdated CFls, or do anything before we see the rich and the corporations doing it everywhere.

[Xringer]

"It's a scam to sell products people, wake up."


What? So we got that new Prius-C for nothing?? Dang!!

But, my wife really likes only going to the gas station once a month..
And, she thinks it's cute!!


She's gonna cry when I tell her saving the earth is just a scam..

Originally Posted by Xringer

"It's a scam to sell products people, wake up."


What? So we got that new Prius-C for nothing?? Dang!!

But, my wife really likes only going to the gas station once a month..
And, she thinks it's cute!!


She's gonna cry when I tell her saving the earth is just a scam..

That's kind of proving my point actually, thanks. Yes, you have wasted your money other than that your wife likes it. Congrats.

Saving money, like I said wasn't part of the discussion. Saving money is nice. Not having to pay those evil oil companies as much. Congrats.

But, other than that don't fool yourselves that you're helping the planet. Most probably you're boomers, and are part of what created this problem. You're in the hole before you even began this conservation nonsense.

[Ryland]

If industry makes up such a larger percentage of our energy used, then of course making better choices is going to have an impact because those industries who use energy and pollute make consumer goods and they refine fuels, when you go to the gas station fewer times in a month you have an impact on how much energy and pollution the oil refinery is producing, when you buy a higher quality product to replace a worn out product you are cutting back on future demand and thus cutting back on the energy and pollution produced to provide that future demand.
CFL light bulbs have to be recycled, but even if they are not the sheer number of bulbs that they displace is amazing, the raw materials, the shipping, packaging, I remember when everyone had a huge box or shelf of spare light bulbs in their house and there was always a light bulb in the trash can, then we move on the LED lighting and the big issue with LED lighting is the same problem as we have with PV panels, who gets to use them in 50 years when you die.

[Xringer]

I've heard that power use in America has been dropping.
People are using less power, and of course with all the help from our Evil Overlords in goverment,
less power is being consumed by manufacturing.. (Since we don't make as many goods these days).

So, with the over-head cost for maintaining the grid and Overlord infrastructure, always going up..
Their response is to punish us for conserving, with higher kWh prices!
And of course EvilOverlords.gov has to get their 'carbon' cut,
so 3rd world Evil.govs can be paid to figure out how to limit CO2, and give a percentage to Al Gore.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by DirtFlinger

But, other than that don't fool yourselves that you're helping the planet. Most probably you're boomers, and are part of what created this problem. You're in the hole before you even began this conservation nonsense.

It's unfortunate that DirtFlinger is so unskilled at introducing such an important argument, namely that our culture... which must include all cultures that have risen above a subsistence level, are devouring and destroying planetary resources faster than they can be replenished.

We're all aboard the same sinking ship, even DirtFlinger, even though he wants to deny it... If DirtFlinger can use a computer to post his argument, he is as deeply embedded in the problem as anyone he is pointing a finger at.

Agricultural and industrial life have allowed the multiplication of out human number to a level that is about an order of magnitude above the carrying capacity (around a billion people) of the planet we inherited. Our industrial and agricultural activities have degraded the planet, until it's carrying capacity is now even lower than it was in pre-agricultural/pre-industrial times.

Personally, I am seeing no signs that humanity has the ability to recognize the peril that we are now in, let alone take any effective action to change course.

-AC

[menaus2]

The way I think of it is this:

Little changes help a little.
Bigger changes help more.
Both are better than doing nothing.

Sure switching to CFL's, using reusable shopping bags and all the other green fads designed by marketers to make us feel good isn't a friggin' panacea, but they aren't useless either. You got to be real about expectations. Start expecting to reduce the rate of damage to the planet, not saving it overnight and getting frustrated. Frustration is a waste of time and emotional energy that could be allocated to doing something productive.

Speaking of that, I'm gonna get off the computer and work the glazing to a solar hot water collector.

Originally Posted by menaus2

The way I think of it is this:

Little changes help a little.
Bigger changes help more.
Both are better than doing nothing.

Sure switching to CFL's, using reusable shopping bags and all the other green fads designed by marketers to make us feel good isn't a friggin' panacea, but they aren't useless either. You got to be real about expectations. Start expecting to reduce the rate of damage to the planet, not saving it overnight and getting frustrated. Frustration is a waste of time and emotional energy that could be allocated to doing something productive.

Speaking of that, I'm gonna get off the computer and work the glazing to a solar hot water collector.

That's exactly the thing with which I am disagreeing. That small efforts across a large scope are better than specific action on a larger scope.

That poor dump hippie kid said that his Grandma never let him skip stones as a kid! Why? Because she thought it would fill up the pond!

If that nonsense were true there would be no more ponds today! Idiots.

I feel so bad for that poor little hippie kid who's grandma screwed him up, forever making him a big pussy and robbing our great nation of what would have otherwise been a man.

The simple truth is that the large corporations have led y'all to believe that you could do something about their raping of the planet by say, buying subscriptions to GreenPeace, or buying experimental cars that don't do crap to save our dying planet.

They make you feel like you're doing something, so you feel better, forget about it, and go about your consumerish lives.

Hey, you can't lie to me. I have dufus hippie friends and I can tell you they're not walking around concerned for the Earth on a daily basis. Only when it's convenient.

And, THEY make it so convenient. All you have to do is pay more for a "green" contractor that'll waste all sorts of extra money on things nobody should have.

[Xringer]

You seem to be worried about our 'dying planet'. Why?

Dying is a fact of life. Since day one, this planet has been dying.
Even if all the humans moved to Mars, the earth is still doomed.
One of these days, a large NEO is going to slam us, or the sun will wipe us out with a super flare & etc.

Humans are just a random event. We've only survived this long, by pure chance.. So, why worry about it?

[Daox]

So if corporations are all so evil, where do you buy anything that you use? Do you make everything yourself?

The truth is corporations are there to make money by providing a product or service that customers want. The customers (all of us) drive the market. That means there are companies developing efficient new technologies for the eco-minded people out there to buy. I don't buy in to the whole conspiracy theory you seem to think is there. Yes, there are obviously greenwashed products out there, but there are also many great products being made. With more and more emphasis on the environment you'll probably see an increasing number of both.

Also, please keep the language in check. This is a place to hold civil discussions, not some teenager ranting forum.