SALTY WELL/ high iron content too

David · 12-26-13, 09:36 PM

SALTY WELL

Hello,

I hope you have all had a very Merry Christmas.

I wish to ask anyone if they can provide me with an economic way of reducing the salinity of my bore (read Well) and reduce its high levels of iron.

My past research has led me to conclude that magnets are an expensive sham and Water filtration systems are very expensive if you are trying to filter the volumes of water I will need to keep my garden well watered in our hot summers. (It is early summer at present).

I am attracted to the use of osmosis and membranes.

kind regards

David from 'down under' or as I like to say from up here'

jeff5may · 12-28-13, 02:20 PM

What kind of garden are you growing? Orchard, vineyard, row crops...?

From the previous thread here, you stated you have 1/2 Acre of farmland. You also stated that your well can provide up to 110 cubic meters of water per day. Assuming that you will need around 5 cm of irrigation water per week for the whole half acre, this works out to around 25 cubic meters per week. This amount of usage is still way above the capacity of "whole-home" packaged systems.

Your main 2 concerns of iron and tds content will require different treatment methods. Before you run the water through a reverse osmosis process, the iron and calcium/magnesium hardness must be removed first. If not, they will clog up the R/O system very quickly.

You said you had a water quality test done on the well. The figures that matter as far as i can tell are:

Total Iron (ppm Fe)
Total Hardness (ppm CaCO3)
Total Calcium (ppm Ca)
Total Magnesium (ppm Mg)
Total Sodium (ppm Na)
pH
Total Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3)
p-Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3)
TDS or EC(PPM/mMhos)

Please post values if you have them, as well as any other contaminants that exist in significant amounts.

David · 12-30-13, 12:50 AM

Hello jeff,

Thank you for your reply
I do not have an agricultural business as a matter of fact I grow cacti succulents and in particular caudiciforms.
I have a mains water supply and do not depend upon my 'well' . I had the well drilled to save my 60 year old golden elm. When the system was being 'proven' my drillers word a large amount of water was forced back into the well under high pressure. When this was released the equivalent of an oil gusher occurred with the water pouring out. This was to establish a good water head as it causes the sides of the bore to collapse and in turn to be expelled. The question at the time was what to do with all of this water. I jumped at the opportunity to pour it on to my drought stricken elm. Bad move. The water was highly saline ( as I later found out) . This course of action was the last straw. My elm never recovered. I have since chopped it down. A sad sad day.
I do not depend upon my small parcel of land for a livelihood and have high quality mains pressure drinking water. I only want to rescue something from this financial wreckage ... at the moment all I have is an high pressure fire extinguisher. Green lawns and healthy trees are my sole objective.

I do not want to throw good money after bad.

I have been wondering about using the power of the sun distill this latent asset. I do not have room for a salt pan.

I throw my self at the feet of the international community to come up with a good idea.I am not going to shoot myself over it but it is in my nature to nibble away until i find a cheap and simple way of using this water.

kind regards

David

Higgy · 12-30-13, 04:15 PM

I know there are ways of reducing Sodium. Like Jeff stated, you can use reverse osmosis...but that would be super expensive to do the amount of water that you want, even if you used a water softener/iron removal first. Reverse osmosis is more for drinking water rather then using it on outdoor greenery. I did a quick search on removing sodium and there wasn't much there other then distillation or reverse osmosis.

David · 12-31-13, 07:00 AM

Thank you Higgy,

It is 11pm hear in beautiful downtown Bacchus Marsh Victoria Australia.

It is just one hour from a new year here but I will wish you a happy new year in advance.

Happy new year.

Kind regards,

David

Higgy · 12-31-13, 10:03 AM

Oh wow, I didn't even notice you're from Australia. Happy New Year to you.

It's like...ridiculously cold here. -35C with a -41C windchill. Wanna trade?

David · 01-01-14, 10:16 PM

People do say that I don't have an accent.

we regularly have +35C and the occasional +41 and even+45 still wanna trade

jeff5may · 01-01-14, 10:56 PM

OK, so from the other thread, you stated you only really need around 500 liters per week from this salty well. This brings the scale WAY down on the project, into the possibly affordable range.

However, not knowing the specific properties of your well water, it is very difficult to recommend specific treatment options. Since you have high TDS (salty) water, you will definitely need a reverse osmosis stage in your system. RO systems are designed to cope with a certain maximum concentration, so the higher TDS, the more rugged the RO stage will need to be. You also have iron and some amount of ore (Ca,Mg,Mn) in your well water. Knowing how much is there will tell you the best way to get rid of it.

David · 01-03-14, 07:06 PM

Hello Jeff and a Happy New year to you.

This was my water analysis as at 1/3/2010 when I had my bore water subjected to comprehensive analysis.

RESULTS

Ph 7.2
Electrical conductivity 3,000
Total dissolved solids 2,300
Total alkalinity
as CaCO3 mg/L 450
CALCIUM (total) mg/L 110
MAGNESIUM (total) mg/L 80
SODIUM (total) mg/L 360
POTASSIUM (total) mg/L 4.8
IRON (total) mg/L 3.9
NITRITE as N mg/L <0.0050
NITRATE as N mg/L 0.010
CHLORIDE, Cl mg/L 860
Sulphate, SO4 mg/L 230

Sodium Absorption ratio (Calc) 4.9

I wish to reduce the salt and iron at least.

I hope this is of assistance.

Kind regards
David

jeff5may · 01-04-14, 11:19 PM

OOF! That's some pretty mean water. I hate to tell you this, but any way you cut it, this water is going to be tough to purify. Here's why:

To be able to feed this water through any kind of membrane, you will have to take a lot of ore out of it, so the ore won't clog up the membrane. This not only includes RO membranes, but also microfilters or ultrafilters. The calcium, magnesium, and iron are the ores that will need to be dealt with. They will need to be oxidized and filtered out first.

My guess is that you will need a greensand or resin bed to scrub out the scale to an acceptable level, if not a full-on softener unit. Then you will need an RO unit that will handle your brackish water. Between these two stages, you may be able to use a microfilter to catch some sludge and make it easier on the RO. A setup like this will use tanks, not cartridges.

Your well water isn't bad enough that you can't get a good amount of useful water without breaking the bank. But you're going to have to do some research and talk to some experts to get your money's worth. Whatever you get, make sure it uses industry-standard parts and consumables, as most of the consumer-grade water treatment stuff has proprietary, expensive replacement parts.

Check out this site. It has lots of info and tips, as well as a number you can call and talk to the gurus:
TheWellGuru.com | Aquatic Filter Systems | Home of the Well Guru

12-26-13, 09:36 PM	#1
David David Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	SALTY WELL/ high iron content too SALTY WELL Hello, I hope you have all had a very Merry Christmas. I wish to ask anyone if they can provide me with an economic way of reducing the salinity of my bore (read Well) and reduce its high levels of iron. My past research has led me to conclude that magnets are an expensive sham and Water filtration systems are very expensive if you are trying to filter the volumes of water I will need to keep my garden well watered in our hot summers. (It is early summer at present). I am attracted to the use of osmosis and membranes. kind regards David from 'down under' or as I like to say from up here' Last edited by David; 12-31-13 at 07:03 AM..

12-28-13, 02:20 PM	#2
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,431 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	What kind of garden are you growing? Orchard, vineyard, row crops...? From the previous thread here, you stated you have 1/2 Acre of farmland. You also stated that your well can provide up to 110 cubic meters of water per day. Assuming that you will need around 5 cm of irrigation water per week for the whole half acre, this works out to around 25 cubic meters per week. This amount of usage is still way above the capacity of "whole-home" packaged systems. Your main 2 concerns of iron and tds content will require different treatment methods. Before you run the water through a reverse osmosis process, the iron and calcium/magnesium hardness must be removed first. If not, they will clog up the R/O system very quickly. You said you had a water quality test done on the well. The figures that matter as far as i can tell are: Total Iron (ppm Fe) Total Hardness (ppm CaCO3) Total Calcium (ppm Ca) Total Magnesium (ppm Mg) Total Sodium (ppm Na) pH Total Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3) p-Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3) TDS or EC(PPM/mMhos) Please post values if you have them, as well as any other contaminants that exist in significant amounts. Last edited by jeff5may; 12-28-13 at 02:23 PM..

12-30-13, 12:50 AM	#3
David David Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello jeff, Thank you for your reply I do not have an agricultural business as a matter of fact I grow cacti succulents and in particular caudiciforms. I have a mains water supply and do not depend upon my 'well' . I had the well drilled to save my 60 year old golden elm. When the system was being 'proven' my drillers word a large amount of water was forced back into the well under high pressure. When this was released the equivalent of an oil gusher occurred with the water pouring out. This was to establish a good water head as it causes the sides of the bore to collapse and in turn to be expelled. The question at the time was what to do with all of this water. I jumped at the opportunity to pour it on to my drought stricken elm. Bad move. The water was highly saline ( as I later found out) . This course of action was the last straw. My elm never recovered. I have since chopped it down. A sad sad day. I do not depend upon my small parcel of land for a livelihood and have high quality mains pressure drinking water. I only want to rescue something from this financial wreckage ... at the moment all I have is an high pressure fire extinguisher. Green lawns and healthy trees are my sole objective. I do not want to throw good money after bad. I have been wondering about using the power of the sun distill this latent asset. I do not have room for a salt pan. I throw my self at the feet of the international community to come up with a good idea.I am not going to shoot myself over it but it is in my nature to nibble away until i find a cheap and simple way of using this water. kind regards David

12-30-13, 04:15 PM	#4
Higgy The Gardener Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manitoba - Canada Posts: 492 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	I know there are ways of reducing Sodium. Like Jeff stated, you can use reverse osmosis...but that would be super expensive to do the amount of water that you want, even if you used a water softener/iron removal first. Reverse osmosis is more for drinking water rather then using it on outdoor greenery. I did a quick search on removing sodium and there wasn't much there other then distillation or reverse osmosis.

12-31-13, 07:00 AM	#5
David David Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Higgy, It is 11pm hear in beautiful downtown Bacchus Marsh Victoria Australia. It is just one hour from a new year here but I will wish you a happy new year in advance. Happy new year. Kind regards, David

12-31-13, 10:03 AM	#6
Higgy The Gardener Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manitoba - Canada Posts: 492 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Oh wow, I didn't even notice you're from Australia. Happy New Year to you. It's like...ridiculously cold here. -35C with a -41C windchill. Wanna trade?

01-01-14, 10:16 PM	#7
David David Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	People do say that I don't have an accent. we regularly have +35C and the occasional +41 and even+45 still wanna trade

01-01-14, 10:56 PM	#8
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,431 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	OK, so from the other thread, you stated you only really need around 500 liters per week from this salty well. This brings the scale WAY down on the project, into the possibly affordable range. However, not knowing the specific properties of your well water, it is very difficult to recommend specific treatment options. Since you have high TDS (salty) water, you will definitely need a reverse osmosis stage in your system. RO systems are designed to cope with a certain maximum concentration, so the higher TDS, the more rugged the RO stage will need to be. You also have iron and some amount of ore (Ca,Mg,Mn) in your well water. Knowing how much is there will tell you the best way to get rid of it.

01-03-14, 07:06 PM	#9
David David Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Jeff and a Happy New year to you. This was my water analysis as at 1/3/2010 when I had my bore water subjected to comprehensive analysis. RESULTS Ph 7.2 Electrical conductivity 3,000 Total dissolved solids 2,300 Total alkalinity as CaCO3 mg/L 450 CALCIUM (total) mg/L 110 MAGNESIUM (total) mg/L 80 SODIUM (total) mg/L 360 POTASSIUM (total) mg/L 4.8 IRON (total) mg/L 3.9 NITRITE as N mg/L <0.0050 NITRATE as N mg/L 0.010 CHLORIDE, Cl mg/L 860 Sulphate, SO4 mg/L 230 Sodium Absorption ratio (Calc) 4.9 I wish to reduce the salt and iron at least. I hope this is of assistance. Kind regards David

01-04-14, 11:19 PM	#10
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,431 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	OOF! That's some pretty mean water. I hate to tell you this, but any way you cut it, this water is going to be tough to purify. Here's why: To be able to feed this water through any kind of membrane, you will have to take a lot of ore out of it, so the ore won't clog up the membrane. This not only includes RO membranes, but also microfilters or ultrafilters. The calcium, magnesium, and iron are the ores that will need to be dealt with. They will need to be oxidized and filtered out first. My guess is that you will need a greensand or resin bed to scrub out the scale to an acceptable level, if not a full-on softener unit. Then you will need an RO unit that will handle your brackish water. Between these two stages, you may be able to use a microfilter to catch some sludge and make it easier on the RO. A setup like this will use tanks, not cartridges. Your well water isn't bad enough that you can't get a good amount of useful water without breaking the bank. But you're going to have to do some research and talk to some experts to get your money's worth. Whatever you get, make sure it uses industry-standard parts and consumables, as most of the consumer-grade water treatment stuff has proprietary, expensive replacement parts. Check out this site. It has lots of info and tips, as well as a number you can call and talk to the gurus: TheWellGuru.com \| Aquatic Filter Systems \| Home of the Well Guru