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Old 01-22-15, 03:11 AM   #21
gtojohn
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the pvc flue on high efficiency heaters is because they run cool enough to condensate. They have draft inducer blowers.
Since your issue began with the new hot water heater, I would investigate what the difference is. Pilot lights can be adjusted higher, that might be all you need.
Fireplace and wood stove chimneys draft better if insulated. As long as your flue is located inside of your house i'mnot sure if there is much to be done. You might be able to build an insulated chase around it in the attic. Be mind full of the clearances.

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Old 01-22-15, 09:58 PM   #22
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There is a thread going on about pilot lights and the Btu consumption they waste , I suspect you will kill the efficiency number of the water heater if you turn up the pilot. (if that model has one)

The fix may be to move the water tank into a better position in the room then give it its own 4" vent instead of the combined 4" to 5" multi elbowed joined and combined 60* angled vent the installer decided to do.
the roof vent may of been done wrong as well , to close to a obstacle or whatnot I have little faith in his decision making abilities after seeing his handy work and the Carbon Monoxide leak that ensued.
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Old 01-23-15, 02:40 AM   #23
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I think the crux he's up against is the closet is beneath or against a stairway inside a very tall house. There was only one flue installed when the house was built because of all the stair framing and its no longer accessible to add additional. If there are no openable windows above it a new flue could be run out the exterior wall. Here we require 2 combustion air make up vents, 1 within 12" of floor and one within 12" of ceiling. They should be free flowing with no dampers or flappers. I would chose life safety over using more gas in my pilot. The pilot adjustment should be in the main burner gas valve under a screw or plug
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Old 01-23-15, 08:35 AM   #24
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He might as well install a electric water heater if he is forced to waste gas to make the current one safe.

The on demand water heaters are close to if not 100% efficient.

That leaky system is frighting.
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Old 01-24-15, 03:46 PM   #25
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thanks for the advice and feedbacks (esp. concerns)...much appreciated.

Fact is as follows:

(1) ever since we have our AO Smith "skinny" 40gal natural gas water tank replaced with GE (it was 3 yrs ago in the month of November), this problem started to appear.

(2) This problem of backdrafting only occured in a very-specific condition. While during the past 2 years when that (backdrafting) happened it was haphazardly dealt with (happened in the morning hours when we started prepping our kids for school, getting out of the door for work, etc.) and it never happened throughout the duration of the winter (cold) months.

This year when this happened (that's during the transition between summer heat and first couple of seasonal cool-downs which would bring the interior of the house down to approx. 16C or so, and when my wife begins to complain about headaches, etc.), I took the day off to investigate (and also called on a serviceman to look into this matter). I recalled that the outside temp was around 8C, and was somewhat foggy. 15mins after turning on the heat mode on thermostat (to call on the boiler to start boiling full-power), that's when our CO detector starts to register with readings past 160ppm or higher....opening up that closet and when I felt on the angled exhaust pipe (the one that exhaust the boiler), the piping was not warm but rather cold (room temp). Immediately, I realised that there's not enough heat inside that 4" exhaust pipe to cause the exhaust gas to rise properly, so w/o hesitation: I crank up the GE hot water tank temp to kick-start that side (left side) of the exhaust piping temp.

3~5 mins into that, I can tell (from the CO detector reading) that the CO reading level no longer increases but begin to drop gradually (with window cracked opened of course)....

Over the next 30mins to 1hr as the hydronic in-floor heating boiler is in full action, the CO reading returned to zero and stayed there.

Such phenomenon would only happened once during the start of the hydronic heating season, and no longer appears throughout the rest of the cold months...

This leads me to believe that there's some exhaust issues on the boiler side only, and may have attributed by the fact that I replaced a relatively inefficient hot water tank (with bigger pilot light? or more frequent boiling cycles (because of less insulation(?), as opposed to the more efficient (3" insulation, and smaller pilot light that I can see) GE I replaced it with), causing the upper section of the chimney pipe to be somewhat colder than previously...

Anyways, I do appreciate all the advice and feedbacks in this case. I'm not going to replace it with all-electric ones, but to investigate and rectify the current situation with the boiler side of the exhaust instead.

Cheers,

Q
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Old 01-25-15, 07:15 AM   #26
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Don't die trying to save money. Redo the install so this has no possibility of happening again, ever. Your wife already got headaches and such. If you won't do it for yourself do it for them please.
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Old 01-25-15, 08:25 AM   #27
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Possible the vent pathway / cavity will have enough room for two vents side by side.
or they might allow you to vent it straight out the wall, like with the direct Vent fireplaces .


The installation manual will have the options for the Vent install and the safety protocol for its clearances to doorways or windows that open etc.
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Old 01-25-15, 08:45 AM   #28
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I used the install manual to instal my side vent gas fireplace , followed it to a T with both the vent and the surround I made for it. Which gives me a high level of confidence in its safety.

The install manual is the key to safety
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Old 01-25-15, 11:04 AM   #29
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yes folks,

I am going to revise the exhaust pipes...

Cheers,

Q.
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Old 01-25-15, 04:23 PM   #30
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nice , can never be to safe with carbon monoxide.

With my car if I drive with the trunk open the fumes drift in strongly , my fix (besides rarely driving with it open) is to put the blower on full to provide some back pressure.

And I thought the Germans were done with gassing people

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