16 years later...

[ryanwc]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

Anti-Conservation:

• I still run my Gas oven on "warm" to cut the chill, during the worst winter days.
• I now seem to be running 2 computers 24/7.
• My sound system is much improved.

-AC_Hacker

In that period, I added a wife and 2 children, which is a disaster when comparing household usage year over year.

[Servicetech]

How much have the fixed meter charges gone up over the past 16 years? Ours used to be $5/mo, it's not $13 for electric. Gas is up to $30/mo, forgot what it was 16 years ago.

[Robaroni]

AC_Hacker,
I use an epeat gold laptop now (Elitebook 8560w) and do some pretty heavy CAD/CAM and electronic design. It wasn't cheap but I love it and don't miss the main frame computers I used before it. Running it uses about 22 watts.

My speakers are from Dynaudio and they're 4 ohms so they require power to sound good. I'm still debating an amp for them. The class 'D',s are efficient amps but I just don't like the sound at all.

When I need to conserve power I use headphones. I designed a capacitor amp for Elektor Magazine but it didn't seem to take off. I guess you have to be power conservers like us to appreciate it. It charges in 30 seconds and runs over an hour.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Robaroni

AC_Hacker,
I use an epeat gold laptop now...it uses about 22 watts.

My speakers are from Dynaudio and they're 4 ohms so they require power to sound good. I'm still debating an amp for them...

When I need to conserve power I use headphones...

These are all good approaches. The laptop idea sounds really good. My big computer, which I really need to turn off when I'm not using it, is a quad core with loads of ram and big drives that I use for video editing, when I really need the power. It's just my own laziness that I don't turn it off when I'm not using it. (In fact, I just got up and shut it down, I'm feeling so guilty...)

I guess I was being just a bit facetious when I included my sound system, because in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't pull much power.

I used to use a 200W+200W Hafler, for the mains and a 100W+100W for surround, and a 200W for subwoofer but I finally came to my senses. Now I have a modern Denon that barely gets warm when it's in use, and the sound is quite nice. Larger speakers, so I don't need so many watts.

I'd have to say that that relentless insulation upgrades (which has also been accompanied by knock-on relentless infiltration reductions) has been the biggest improvement.

And since I don't have a horde of people using hot water, the demand heater really does especially well.

Then there's my puny little 3/4T heat pump! My goal is to improve the house insulation so much that this little thing will heat the whole house.

Best,

-AC

[pinballlooking]

I have been running laptops for a while now. I run development software cad on it.

Dell has a outlet with good deals.
Dell Outlet Home and Home Office | Dell
You can get some good deals on fast laptops. Signup for their email they have 35% off sales or more.

You get a cheap docking station off ebay to run duel monitors. I run two 27 inch Led monitors.

My laptop is quad core i7 with 8 Gig ram 512 Gig SSD I have a 1TB SSD here
waiting to go in. all this power at very few watts. The fan is even variable speed depending on the load on it.

I get the features I want then add the SSD hard drives myself. I take out the DVD drive and put a second SSD drive to have the laptop backup to the second drive. They make a adapter for this.

Power settings I set to have monitors to go to sleep then after so much time I have it go into hibernation. SSD hard drive are fast so it does not take the long to wake up with all your software ready to go.

[Robaroni]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

These are all good approaches. The laptop idea sounds really good. My big computer, which I really need to turn off when I'm not using it, is a quad core with loads of ram and big drives that I use for video editing, when I really need the power. It's just my own laziness that I don't turn it off when I'm not using it. (In fact, I just got up and shut it down, I'm feeling so guilty...)

I guess I was being just a bit facetious when I included my sound system, because in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't pull much power.

I used to use a 200W+200W Hafler, for the mains and a 100W+100W for surround, and a 200W for subwoofer but I finally came to my senses. Now I have a modern Denon that barely gets warm when it's in use, and the sound is quite nice. Larger speakers, so I don't need so many watts.

I'd have to say that that relentless insulation upgrades (which has also been accompanied by knock-on relentless infiltration reductions) has been the biggest improvement.

And since I don't have a horde of people using hot water, the demand heater really does especially well.

Then there's my puny little 3/4T heat pump! My goal is to improve the house insulation so much that this little thing will heat the whole house.

Best,

-AC

AC,
I like your approach. Getting down heat bills, which tax my system most, are my goal too.

I've owned, and actually built, David Hafler's amps. They do use power! I looked at the big Emotiva amp but boy does that use juice! I'm evaluating my system to see what I can get away with realistically. What I might do is build a lower power amp to use when the power is out (our co-op doesn't lower rates at night so that's not an issue). I don't use the 40" TV during the day but at night when I'm beat I really enjoy Netflix so I would hate to give that up. What I might do is get a smaller more energy efficient TV for when the power is out to help my aging batteries cope.

I like the laptop because it is so versatile. I can hook up to 5 monitors on it and I only switch on the big monitor when I'm doing fine circuit board work or CAD drawings. The down side is laptops cost more per computing power.

Best,
Rob

[AC_Hacker]

My house is really old (1892) and there is the main part (15 x 24, 1.5 stories) and the kitchen (16 x 16 w/ crawlspace). Last summer, I put in a vapor barrier under the kitchen and the difference has been astounding, not only for the kitchen, but the whole house. I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. I also put in 2" EPS under the kitchen floor which has helped greatly, but the vapor barrier has helped in the whole house and the basement which shared air with the crawlspace.

Now, it is much more comfortable in the basement, and I don't have to keep mopping my tools with oil to keep them from rusting.

My basement is pretty dry for such an old building, but there's no real vapor barrier there... yet.

-AC

[Drake]

My household just does not have the consistency in elec demand or N. gas heating cooking to be able to track conservation improvements reliably. I just have to go on the best efficiency improvements that are working for others. My wife wife travels for business about half each month and I can see that our consumption is near a third that when she is home(but see earns more than enough to pay for what she consumes if she wants). Some months I fire my elec ceramic kilns several times a month and some not at all. Even degree day weighting doesn't really accurately heating demand when accounting for windy days, humidity and other very variable MN weather conditions for heating/cooling. The only thing constant here is that one day will be very different than the next and one year from the next(avg is only a concept for tolerable living here). For me each conservation effort is not always a visible savings as much as knowing it would be costing much more if I didn't. Marriage and family have many investments. Just got to hope you can manage them as efficiently as you can. Good to see that some are able to see that their conservation efforts are visible on their energy consumption.

[dablack]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

However, I'm now pained to see this thread devolve into a pontification of opinion regarding the undesirability of 'too much insulation'.

I really wish that this gumption-diluting turn of the thread had not happened, and I am puzzled and concerned why it has.

SH... I myself, have been a mechanical engineer for 43 years, during which time my career also included a 20 year stint as a college instructor of engineering: mathematics, thermodynamics, physics, manufacturing processes, etc.

It pains me to see your use of the phrase, "As an engineer...", and then to see the dubious advice that follows those words...

I know that it is regular, expected practice for engineers to substantiate their claims with clear mathematical proof. It would be a proper thing for you, if you are going to claim to be an engineer, to substantiate your assertions 'as an engineer' with clear mathematical proof, and not your local folklore.

(* I think that EcoRenovators need to be aware that oil-rich Oklahoma, the state where you live, has the lowest energy costs of any state in the USA, and also discourages solar energy and wind energy, and may be the reason that your folk-loric energy advice is so tepid. *)

I say all this because years ago, I made the mistake of accepting 'common wisdom' (folklore) and insulated my house with a 'reasonable amount' of insulation... I seem to recall that the same phrase "insulating with dollars" was used then, too. In the following decades, I did waste a very large amount of money through heat loss, because of the very large rise in fuel costs (which, in the long term will continue to rise). Now I am ripping out the 'reasonable amount' of insulation and putting in the most effective insulation I can possibly afford. My energy bills are beginning to speak to the success I am having.

SH, I would like you to please put me in touch with 'your client' who didn't listen to your advice. I would like to speak by phone or email to him (or her) myself to see just how much he regrets having wasted so much money on insulation. I'd like to see how much he regrets not joining his fellow Americans in shouldering the burden of foolish energy use.

It would be nice if you had an international perspective, if you were as progressive as Scandinavia in their energy conservation in their housing designs. It would be useful if you were as thorough as the Germans and actually understood at least the principles of Passive House design and planning, and realized the interplay between all the elements of heat conservation design.

It would be nice if you applied your engineering talent (if it exists) to initiating projects that typical EcoRenovators might benefit from, complete with photos and diagrams and actionable details. Your SIP barn is a start. I'm sure that it will be useful to others who also want to build a barn.

SH, will you please get back on track and show us the numerical details of how your efforts to conserve have reduced your energy use? If that has actually happened.

That is the purpose of this thread...

-AC

WOW! Um ok. Not sure why things got insulting. I have a question AC? At what point does the total amount of insulation become silly?

I think SH's point was to use payback period to help decide how much insulation to use. These days we have access to REAL data to help us decide how much to use. No folklore involved. While building my house, it was easy for me to get a bid for spray foam. I knew how much exterior wall space I had and how much it was going to cost to use spray foam (high and low density) or fiberglass. Then using that information, I could decide how big of an AC system I wanted to buy. As an engineer (can I say that without posting my transcript?), with a little reading, those things can be figured out. Actually, you don't need a master's in mechanical to do the math. Lots of good data out there. I could have filled the stud bay with high density foam, but putting in 4" of low density was "good enough" for where I live and the design of my house. I might have filled the bay with the low density stuff but I found some used chicken house blue rigid foam to use on the outside. This is all just a math equation.

If you double your insulation, does it cut your heating cooling bill in half?
Where do you draw the line? It is up to the individual on how much they want to invest to get that last little bit of return.

I get into the same argument when someone I know buys new Honda "because it gets 35 MPG". They owned a perfectly good car or truck that got 20 - 25 mpg but they think the 35 mpg car (with full coverage insurance) will save them money. HA! Someone didn't do their math!

Now, I'm going to go look at my energy bills so I can post up actual numbers for my before and after.

Austin

[dablack]

Here is my before and after.

While building my house, I put a 1700sqft double wide (brand new) on my property. It was all electric with six people living in it. My July 2014 electric use was 2000 kwh.

My new house that we moved into in May of this year is 2700 sqft of air conditioned space. It has 2x6 construction, a silver metal roof, and (on average) 4" of low density foam in the stud bays and under the roof deck. I also have 1.5" of rigid foam under the metal roof. June of this year was my first full month in the house. Again, my wife and I plus our four kids. Our electric use was 1400 kwh.

I'm obviously very pleased. Over the past month, I did find some air leaks that the spray foam didn't get. It was usually where two studs were together. I still haven't finished caulking and touching up those spots. I think it will be even better after that. Then I also have the rigid foam to put on the outside that I haven't done yet. Then, finally the hardi plank siding. Things are only going to get better. Oh yeah! I haven't built the front porch yet. It was shade the lower half of the south facing wall.

thanks
Austin