Gravitricity - weight/gravity power storage

Daox · 08-02-19, 07:39 PM

I just came across this youtube video and decided to share it. Its an interesting concept. The weight would have to be immense for this to work. But, it is an interesting idea and if it could be done economically sounds like it could be a good idea. I especially like the idea of converting old mining shafts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7a_LMM2_fE

Bicycle Bob · 08-07-19, 04:53 PM

I can never understand why they would suggest size limits. There's the household gravity light using a sandbag already. It sounds very similar to pumped hydro, just for different geography, etc. You could put one under downtown Regina very cheaply. You could also just use a narrow shaft and a cavity at the bottom, pumping water. One hybrid I like would use a kite to haul a tank car up an incline to replenish a reservoir. It could also work on a vertical rig. If the wind drops, they spill a bit and haul the rest.

Zwerius · 08-08-19, 04:51 AM

Here's another one: https://vimeo.com/335818817?width=800&height=480

Daox · 08-08-19, 08:06 AM

I wonder how DIY-able this idea is. For example, how deep and how much weight would it take to store about 10kwh (similar to a power wall)?

WyrTwister · 08-08-19, 08:11 AM

I have read of electrical utilities using stored hydro ti supplement production at peak load .

I get the idea this is not too common ?

Wyr
God bless

Daox · 08-08-19, 01:24 PM

So I ran the calculations. The results are not too encouraging.

250 lb weight needs 10620 feet of travel to store 1 kwh.
1000 lb weight needs 2655 feet of travel to store 1 kwh.
5000 lb weight needs 531 feet of travel to store 1 kwh.
10000 lb weight needs 265 feet of travel to store 1 kwh.

Yes, those numbers are for ONE kwh.

WyrTwister · 08-08-19, 02:07 PM

My understanding is the hydro / water storage system is ideally a water tank / pond / reservoir / lake on a mountain / high place .

A combination pump / generator at a much lower elevation , with a big pipe between .

Water is pumped to the higher elevation and stored , using off peak power . On peak , the water flows down to the lower elevation , spinning a turbine which spins a generator . Producing power to help with on peak demand .

Kind of like charging & discharging a battery .

Wyr
God bless

Daox · 08-08-19, 02:38 PM

Yeah, pumped hydro is a much better solution I think too. However, it's very location specific. If you had to create pumped hydro at many different locations I would imagine you would run into similar issues.

Elcam84 · 08-09-19, 08:07 PM

Pumped hydro is pretty much the only feasible method at the moment. The mine shaft thing sounds good but very few mine shafts are straight down of any length and they are generally small and they fill with water.

The energy vault thing... Not feasible at all. In fact there is a good video explaining why it's so bad.

If using a weight worked it would already be used.

mincus · 08-09-19, 08:36 PM

We have a pumped hydro facility here in MO. They had a catastrophic failure in 2005 which sent a billion gallons of water flowing downstream, right through a popular campground and the very popular Johnson Shut-ins. Luckily it was at 5:00am in December so no one died. Ironically, someone did die in the construction of the replacement a few years later. Overall a very interesting story, and one I teach my freshmen about.

I think it's quite interesting how important Ameren knew this plant was. Important enough to spend quite a bit of money and build one in the same place as the disaster a few years before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_S..._Power_Station

08-07-19, 04:53 PM	#2
Bicycle Bob Suncatcher Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spiritwood, Northern Saskatchewan Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I can never understand why they would suggest size limits. There's the household gravity light using a sandbag already. It sounds very similar to pumped hydro, just for different geography, etc. You could put one under downtown Regina very cheaply. You could also just use a narrow shaft and a cavity at the bottom, pumping water. One hybrid I like would use a kite to haul a tank car up an incline to replenish a reservoir. It could also work on a vertical rig. If the wind drops, they spill a bit and haul the rest. Last edited by Bicycle Bob; 08-07-19 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: Aha addition.

08-08-19, 08:06 AM	#4
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I wonder how DIY-able this idea is. For example, how deep and how much weight would it take to store about 10kwh (similar to a power wall)? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-08-19, 01:24 PM	#6
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	So I ran the calculations. The results are not too encouraging. 250 lb weight needs 10620 feet of travel to store 1 kwh. 1000 lb weight needs 2655 feet of travel to store 1 kwh. 5000 lb weight needs 531 feet of travel to store 1 kwh. 10000 lb weight needs 265 feet of travel to store 1 kwh. Yes, those numbers are for ONE kwh. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 08-08-19 at 01:55 PM..

08-08-19, 02:38 PM	#8
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Yeah, pumped hydro is a much better solution I think too. However, it's very location specific. If you had to create pumped hydro at many different locations I would imagine you would run into similar issues. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-08-19, 04:51 AM	#3
Zwerius Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 70 Thanks: 19 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Here's another one: https://vimeo.com/335818817?width=800&height=480

08-08-19, 08:11 AM	#5
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	I have read of electrical utilities using stored hydro ti supplement production at peak load . I get the idea this is not too common ? Wyr God bless

08-08-19, 02:07 PM	#7
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	My understanding is the hydro / water storage system is ideally a water tank / pond / reservoir / lake on a mountain / high place . A combination pump / generator at a much lower elevation , with a big pipe between . Water is pumped to the higher elevation and stored , using off peak power . On peak , the water flows down to the lower elevation , spinning a turbine which spins a generator . Producing power to help with on peak demand . Kind of like charging & discharging a battery . Wyr God bless

08-09-19, 08:07 PM	#9
Elcam84 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: TX Posts: 275 Thanks: 2 Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts	Pumped hydro is pretty much the only feasible method at the moment. The mine shaft thing sounds good but very few mine shafts are straight down of any length and they are generally small and they fill with water. The energy vault thing... Not feasible at all. In fact there is a good video explaining why it's so bad. If using a weight worked it would already be used.

08-09-19, 08:36 PM	#10
mincus Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	We have a pumped hydro facility here in MO. They had a catastrophic failure in 2005 which sent a billion gallons of water flowing downstream, right through a popular campground and the very popular Johnson Shut-ins. Luckily it was at 5:00am in December so no one died. Ironically, someone did die in the construction of the replacement a few years later. Overall a very interesting story, and one I teach my freshmen about. I think it's quite interesting how important Ameren knew this plant was. Important enough to spend quite a bit of money and build one in the same place as the disaster a few years before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_S..._Power_Station