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Old 09-13-16, 11:51 AM   #31
MEMPHIS91
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Steven, your information is amazing, and I'm sure that many other builders/ renovators are going to use it for years to come. It's hard to find info. I'm all about cheaper. And yes you are right the frost line is not much at all here. I will not insulated my basement/root cellar any way because I want it to be the temp of the ground.

I'm still concerned on duct because of the length of the house. I may have to use 10" in some places. Or 2 10" lines with other lines branching of with 8" and 6". That is just a matter of running the numbers though. And if I go with a deauperheater, I really want my hot water tank in the same room with my unit. And right now my house design does make room for that. BUT that can be changed.

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Old 09-16-16, 08:19 PM   #32
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We are looking at electric oven with warming oven above it. these will be mounted into the cabinets. My idea is to place prelite/rockwool insulation in the air space sounding the oven (in the cabinets not directly touching the ovens. This would be built so that the oven could vent and operate as normal, just not be heating up the air. Less energy needed to keep the oven at temp (I like my texas toast and that means an oven at 450-500F!) And heat the air in the kitchen less.

Also has anyone ever thought of hacking a mini split for geothermal?
I am thinking I should go with a 2-2.5 ton 2 stage geothermal and at least one mini split that can at as a dehumidifier running on very little power.
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Old 09-16-16, 08:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEMPHIS91 View Post
Steven, your information is amazing, and I'm sure that many other builders/ renovators are going to use it for years to come. It's hard to find info. I'm all about cheaper. And yes you are right the frost line is not much at all here. I will not insulated my basement/root cellar any way because I want it to be the temp of the ground.

I'm still concerned on duct because of the length of the house. I may have to use 10" in some places. Or 2 10" lines with other lines branching of with 8" and 6". That is just a matter of running the numbers though. And if I go with a deauperheater, I really want my hot water tank in the same room with my unit. And right now my house design does make room for that. BUT that can be changed.
You can use DWV pipe for your ventilation system. Much cheaper than pipe that has to contain pressure. Heck, I have seen people use stovepipes, black plastic flex tubing, and green drain pipes for duct. The cheap stuff is known as S&D or SADR pipe, short for sewer and drain.

Last edited by jeff5may; 09-18-16 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-17-16, 04:15 PM   #34
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Jeff, yeah because a stick of 8" sch40 20' pipe is $130. I be on the look out for cheaper.

I really like the idea of hacking this mini split water chiller to make it geothermal. But the cooling is only 2 tons. I think the house is going to be closer to 1,500 square feet though so that might be doable. And if not I could always put in an extra mini split.
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Old 09-18-16, 02:49 AM   #35
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Menards has 10" x 10 ft sticks on sale now for 49 bucks a stick. The fittings is what gets you.

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Old 09-18-16, 03:57 PM   #36
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There is a $500 rebate I will miss out on if the duct work is in the ground. Bottom of this article. https://www.2escore.com/Documents/HVAC_1114_v6.pdf
Might just be better to go the the attic space. It will be in the envelope anyway since the house will have a sip roof. Though I really like the warm floors idea of them in the floor. Total duct work in the floor looks like close to $1,500 for pipe and fitting.
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Old 10-18-16, 12:37 PM   #37
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I Love my bathroom layout. It is the width of a standard tub/shower unit, installed at one end. The other end has a clothes washer and water heater. The door and window are opposite each other next to those. That provides a handy space to change, with hooks on the door and the washer ready to help as both laundry hamper and table. Fresh, sorted laundry is on shelves above the washer. The tub has a clothesline, adequate for a load on hangars, and the heat duct blows on them. The window wall has the toilet beside the tub, with the scale nearer the window. The door wall has a vanity with a gap beside the tub. That space has the waste basket, toilet roll and magazine rack. While seated, I can change the toilet roll using the waste basket and supplies from the vanity. I can also wash and dry my hands, with a towel over the shower curtain rod. The door swings in, and has a big mirror. When the medicine cabinet door is open, those two give an adjustable rear view. There's only enough floor for a couple of small bath mats, but it does the job without a hitch.
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Old 10-23-16, 12:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEMPHIS91 View Post
We are looking at electric oven with warming oven above it. these will be mounted into the cabinets. My idea is to place prelite/rockwool insulation in the air space sounding the oven (in the cabinets not directly touching the ovens. This would be built so that the oven could vent and operate as normal, just not be heating up the air. Less energy needed to keep the oven at temp (I like my texas toast and that means an oven at 450-500F!) And heat the air in the kitchen less.

Also has anyone ever thought of hacking a mini split for geothermal?
I am thinking I should go with a 2-2.5 ton 2 stage geothermal and at least one mini split that can at as a dehumidifier running on very little power.
For the oven this is probably not a good idea. The reason being ovens are designed for their environment, and often do not cope well with additional heat. By adding insulation you will be losing heat rejection which is important for today's ovens. Quite a few of today's ovens can't even cope with their own self cleaning cycles. Also the majority of the heat loss occurs through the door, so you likely won't see a major energy savings. If you were to move the oven's electronics to a cooler environment and re-engineer the door then you may see some improvement, but at that point you are basically re-engineering the entire oven.

For the heat pumps, I think you are planning on oversizing your system. With good air sealing and well designed ductwork you should be able to get the system size down to below 2 tons.

You already know my thoughts on dehumidifiers, but I don't see a reason to go with an inverter controlled compressor here. Moisture loads out side of kitchens and baths just aren't variable enough to justify the expense.
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Old 10-23-16, 05:43 AM   #39
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Bob, That sounds like some really good ideas for sure, we have been looking at tiny house plans to get ideas like these you suggested in order to save as much square footage as possible. Thank you.

DEnd, This just doesn't make since to me, I do understand the controls don't need to get to hot but the stoves have thermostats, insulating areas that already have it/need it will only cause the stove to heat up quicker and therefore use less power. All modern stove are vented, some through the top of the door, some through a pipe under one of the back eyes (on ranges) and some through the back (I'm sure others have other places as well). As long as the stove is able to vent the way it was designed I would think it would operate correctly. If I have to I can add some shielding to the controls and maybe even a couple extra vent holes for better air flow to them.
This is just what I think, please blow my logic to pieces if I'm missing something. The last thing I want to do is burn down the house.

UPDATE: Land will be closed on on NOV 14th, we are buying 93 acres in Pontotoc, MS. This land is amazing. It has creeks that run all year for possible microhydro, great dirt for gardening and a vast amount of diverse land features that will provide tons of project ideas and homestead.

I've been reading up on the Mixed-humid 40% saving manual, it has some really good info. Building America Best Practices Series Volume 16: 40% Whole-House Energy Savings in the Mixed-Humid Climate | Department of Energy
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Old 10-23-16, 03:00 PM   #40
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It's the electronics, and wiring that need to be kept cool. Insulating the air space around a built in reduces the amount of heat rejection that is needed to keep these components cool.

The other part is ovens are just like houses, good insulation and air sealing reduces energy useage. The weakness in ovens tends to be the air sealing at the door, the thermal bridging there, and the reduced insulation (due to the glass) at the door. Self-cleaning ovens tend to have the best insulation. Ovens with door locks can reduce air leakage, as long as the door lock works to apply pressure on the door. Adding insulation could help, but you need to add it to the oven and keep wiring and electronics outside of it as much as possible. I do agree that most ovens are underinsulated.

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