I am looking at heating and cooling options. - Page 2

pinballlooking · 09-23-13, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Anyways, my installs are posted here, you should check them out..
See how a novice DIYer does it..

My old 24k BTU units will work pretty well down to about 5 deg F.
Below that, the start using higher power (leveling off at abt 1200w IRCC).

I have read through your post. Thanks for being so detailed. You almost had me convinced to buy gauges and pump etc. but my HVAC friend will be cheaper and he is a good guy.

MN Renovator · 09-23-13, 04:50 PM

Awesome, good to hear that Panasonic will support a professionally installed system. I'm looking at using their 12k unit so this is positive to me to know that I can DIY the electrical and mounting and let the lineset work be done by someone willing to do it. In my case, I have a friend who'd be willing to help. Usually if you call an HVAC tech and they don't know you, you'll get a bunch of 'tough luck' because they don't want to touch a unit if they can't do the whole job because they don't make much money with this sort of thing. Depending on the cost of equipment(vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, flaring tools, etc) versus hiring out a friend, I might do the whole thing myself and skip the warranty but if the price is decent for someone to finish the job and put their name as the installer for warranty purposes, I'll hire the friend. I know there is a person or a few on this forum who found someone to finish the job via a Craigslist services wanted ad but I'm a little nervous that someone like that might try to shortcut the work so I'd have to be clear how I want it pumped down.

jeff5may · 09-23-13, 05:26 PM

Consider this-

You could install a couple of smaller mini-split units in high traffic areas of your house (or one larger multi-split with multiple indoor units). These could be controlled at will by the occupants to maintain comfort. You could leave the existing HVAC system as it is, and set it for a wide setpoint spread. The mini units would provide high-efficiency demand heating and cooling, where the central unit would keep the home from overheating or freezing during extreme conditions, say less than 5% of the time. Central unit could also be used for air cleaning/circulation by running just the blower sometimes. Cheap initial cost, energy saving, and leaves room for future improvements while saving energy now and utilizing solar power for heating and cooling.

Xringer · 09-23-13, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking

I have read through your post. Thanks for being so detailed. You almost had me convinced to buy gauges and pump etc. but my HVAC friend will be cheaper and he is a good guy.

It's nice to have the tools needed to DIY repair a system.
Repairing the old unit (that was replaced under warranty)
wasn't really that hard, and it's still working like a brand new unit.

However, the older indoor unit has started to act up in cooling mode.
(Seems to be speeding up and slowing down).
So, I'm half excepting it to fail when the 24/7 heating season starts..

I may be hauling up the AC tool kit again, soon..

Xringer · 09-23-13, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff5may

Consider this-

You could install a couple of smaller mini-split units in high traffic areas of your house (or one larger multi-split with multiple indoor units). These could be controlled at will by the occupants to maintain comfort. You could leave the existing HVAC system as it is, and set it for a wide setpoint spread. The mini units would provide high-efficiency demand heating and cooling, where the central unit would keep the home from overheating or freezing during extreme conditions, say less than 5% of the time. Central unit could also be used for air cleaning/circulation by running just the blower sometimes. Cheap initial cost, energy saving, and leaves room for future improvements while saving energy now and utilizing solar power for heating and cooling.

That's kinda what we are doing with our two Sanyos, during the summer.
Set the main house for 24 or 25C and the den for 23C..
Since that's where we hang out most of the time..

We spent peanuts for cooling this summer. (Wasn't super hot around here).

pinballlooking · 09-23-13, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff5may

Consider this-

You could install a couple of smaller mini-split units in high traffic areas of your house (or one larger multi-split with multiple indoor units). These could be controlled at will by the occupants to maintain comfort. You could leave the existing HVAC system as it is, and set it for a wide setpoint spread. The mini units would provide high-efficiency demand heating and cooling, where the central unit would keep the home from overheating or freezing during extreme conditions, say less than 5% of the time. Central unit could also be used for air cleaning/circulation by running just the blower sometimes. Cheap initial cost, energy saving, and leaves room for future improvements while saving energy now and utilizing solar power for heating and cooling.

This is exactly what I have in mind. My office is the smaller room it will get the 9,000 but unit. The other unit will go in the great room blowing toward the breakfast nook it will get the 12,000 but system. That is where my wife works.

Can anyone have any advice on where the placement should be?
Has anyone mounted one above there bed?

pinballlooking · 09-25-13, 08:01 AM

If you buy Fujitsu from www.greendroplet.com they will warranty it as long as you have it installed by a HVAC guy. This is a good option the 12RLS2 is a very nice unit.

This is a Gov test between Fujitsu 12RLS and Mitsubishi
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/52175.pdf

stevehull · 09-25-13, 12:10 PM

I have a guest house here (central Oklahoma) that is slightly smaller (1800 sq feet) and I have a 2 ton (24K BTU) open loop geothermal heat pump in it. It is two stage and very rarely is it ever in stage two. Stage 1 is about 2/3'rds the 24 K or about 18 KBTU.

I have emergency back-up strips (15 kW), but I have disabled them with a simple switch.

Four tons seems WAY too big. You and I have similar heating/cooling needs.

If you are on 8 acres, then consider an open loop (aka "pump and dump) geothermal unit. A two ton unit uses about 4-6 gallons per minute. You save a lot of money.

BUT, you must have a good, relatively shallow source of water. Pumping water up from 500 feet below ground is very expensive.

You probably are on a water well anyway . . . Depending on the type of well, depth, etc, you may need to increase the size of your well pump so that you can supply house needs together with HVAC needs (open loop situation).

A simple pond would be a good place to dump the water. If you are in a rural area, without fire hydrants, then having a pond on site can save you some 15-20% on your home insurance bill. Check with your agent.

But before you do anything, you seal up the house, insulate it properly and do the cheap stuff first.

Also check with your electric company for rebates beyond the federal 30% tax credit. I got $850 per ton.

Steve

pinballlooking · 09-25-13, 12:41 PM

Thanks for the reply. We have city water and ground water is deep and very hit or miss.
Next door they hit water on the third try. I was going to get a quote for Geo thermal yesterday but I had to cancel. I do wonder if I an oversized @ 4 ton.

WyrTwister · 09-28-13, 12:51 PM

I am running a 10 - 15 year old Goodman 92% two stage gas furnace . It never need to go to high flame , unless I monkey with the Tstat . The A/C condenser is a 4 ton 13 SEER Goodman R22 unit .

If I ever did go with a Heat Pump to replace this unit , I would keep the gas heat , to take over when Out Side Air temp dropped to the cross over cost point ( I do not know what that temp is ? ) .

But , until / unless the A/C dies , I will stay with what I have + my mini split HP / A/C , I installed this summer .

GSHP is not an option , for me .

God bless
Wyr

09-23-13, 04:50 PM	#12
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 939 Thanks: 41 Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts	Awesome, good to hear that Panasonic will support a professionally installed system. I'm looking at using their 12k unit so this is positive to me to know that I can DIY the electrical and mounting and let the lineset work be done by someone willing to do it. In my case, I have a friend who'd be willing to help. Usually if you call an HVAC tech and they don't know you, you'll get a bunch of 'tough luck' because they don't want to touch a unit if they can't do the whole job because they don't make much money with this sort of thing. Depending on the cost of equipment(vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, flaring tools, etc) versus hiring out a friend, I might do the whole thing myself and skip the warranty but if the price is decent for someone to finish the job and put their name as the installer for warranty purposes, I'll hire the friend. I know there is a person or a few on this forum who found someone to finish the job via a Craigslist services wanted ad but I'm a little nervous that someone like that might try to shortcut the work so I'd have to be clear how I want it pumped down. Last edited by MN Renovator; 09-23-13 at 04:53 PM..

09-25-13, 08:01 AM	#17
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	If you buy Fujitsu from www.greendroplet.com they will warranty it as long as you have it installed by a HVAC guy. This is a good option the 12RLS2 is a very nice unit. This is a Gov test between Fujitsu 12RLS and Mitsubishi http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/52175.pdf Last edited by pinballlooking; 09-25-13 at 08:42 AM..

09-25-13, 12:10 PM	#18
stevehull Steve Hull Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: hilly, tree covered Arcadia, OK USA Posts: 826 Thanks: 241 Thanked 165 Times in 123 Posts	I have a guest house here (central Oklahoma) that is slightly smaller (1800 sq feet) and I have a 2 ton (24K BTU) open loop geothermal heat pump in it. It is two stage and very rarely is it ever in stage two. Stage 1 is about 2/3'rds the 24 K or about 18 KBTU. I have emergency back-up strips (15 kW), but I have disabled them with a simple switch. Four tons seems WAY too big. You and I have similar heating/cooling needs. If you are on 8 acres, then consider an open loop (aka "pump and dump) geothermal unit. A two ton unit uses about 4-6 gallons per minute. You save a lot of money. BUT, you must have a good, relatively shallow source of water. Pumping water up from 500 feet below ground is very expensive. You probably are on a water well anyway . . . Depending on the type of well, depth, etc, you may need to increase the size of your well pump so that you can supply house needs together with HVAC needs (open loop situation). A simple pond would be a good place to dump the water. If you are in a rural area, without fire hydrants, then having a pond on site can save you some 15-20% on your home insurance bill. Check with your agent. But before you do anything, you seal up the house, insulate it properly and do the cheap stuff first. Also check with your electric company for rebates beyond the federal 30% tax credit. I got $850 per ton. Steve __________________ consulting on geothermal heating/cooling & rational energy use since 1990

09-23-13, 05:26 PM	#13
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	Consider this- You could install a couple of smaller mini-split units in high traffic areas of your house (or one larger multi-split with multiple indoor units). These could be controlled at will by the occupants to maintain comfort. You could leave the existing HVAC system as it is, and set it for a wide setpoint spread. The mini units would provide high-efficiency demand heating and cooling, where the central unit would keep the home from overheating or freezing during extreme conditions, say less than 5% of the time. Central unit could also be used for air cleaning/circulation by running just the blower sometimes. Cheap initial cost, energy saving, and leaves room for future improvements while saving energy now and utilizing solar power for heating and cooling.

09-25-13, 12:41 PM	#19
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Thanks for the reply. We have city water and ground water is deep and very hit or miss. Next door they hit water on the third try. I was going to get a quote for Geo thermal yesterday but I had to cancel. I do wonder if I an oversized @ 4 ton.

09-28-13, 12:51 PM	#20
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	I am running a 10 - 15 year old Goodman 92% two stage gas furnace . It never need to go to high flame , unless I monkey with the Tstat . The A/C condenser is a 4 ton 13 SEER Goodman R22 unit . If I ever did go with a Heat Pump to replace this unit , I would keep the gas heat , to take over when Out Side Air temp dropped to the cross over cost point ( I do not know what that temp is ? ) . But , until / unless the A/C dies , I will stay with what I have + my mini split HP / A/C , I installed this summer . GSHP is not an option , for me . God bless Wyr