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Old 10-31-14, 03:00 PM   #21
F357
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But I think that the most true, and most accurate answer to your question is that smaller air conditioner/heat pump development made an evolutionary leap in their configuration, and became mini-split air conditioner/heat pumps.
Oh, I know they make window heat pumps, but they still don't make sense to me. They all cost something like $600-900+. Not going to save any money paying that much! Mini splits are great too, but if you can't DIY or find a deal on ebay, they are several thousand dollars.

It seems to me that the standard $99 commodity 5000BTU window unit is marketed towards people that don't want to spend much money. It's a temporary solution. Lots of people rent and would never want to "install" anything. But why not heat the same way? There are more heating days than cooling days in most places. If you could get the price of a "window heater" down to $99, I bet they would sell. Lots of people are scared to use electric space heaters because they gobble too much power.

Hell, I've even seen window mounted pellet burning stoves. If you're going to go that far, I'd think a compressor based heater would make more sense. People pay $100-300 every year for the newest scam of an electric heater marketed on late night TV - something that looks pretty in your living room but still puts out the same 5000 BTU as everything else. Then they tell you how somehow it will magically lower your heating bill...


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Old 10-31-14, 03:35 PM   #22
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Oh, I know they make window heat pumps, but they still don't make sense to me. They all cost something like $600-900+...
Since this is a DIY kind of forum, how will you create a working solution?

-AC
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Old 10-31-14, 05:26 PM   #23
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Since this is a DIY kind of forum, how will you create a working solution?

-AC
The power of the reversing valve is within the reach of many. This device itself makes heat pumps out of air conditioners in the phase change world. It also makes it impossible for many would-be DIY people to complete such a transformation. Between the intimidation factor, the tools necessary, and the skills required, there is a rite of passage not many of us are willing to suffer.

Residential units are engineered for a wide range of conditions of operation, and a somewhat narrow range of high efficiency. They are also designed to be installed in carbon-copy fashion by an average HVAC specialist or technician. The industry just went through great pains to train their techs how to size and install mini-split units, so now they have been grouped in with the "magic wizardry" of comfort control devices in general. Between that and the whole R410a bungle, the prices of these units will probably never deflate significantly from where they are now.

If you want the technology, but don't want to pay the price (either having one installed by a pro or investing time and effort in the DIY), you're just out of luck. If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it.

Many ecorenovators have conquered the reversing valve. Can you?
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Old 10-31-14, 06:31 PM   #24
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If you want the technology, but don't want to pay the price (either having one installed by a pro or investing time and effort in the DIY), you're just out of luck. If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it.

Many ecorenovators have conquered the reversing valve. Can you?
So, you're saying that this is a "DON'T DIY" kind of situation?

-AC
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Old 10-31-14, 08:14 PM   #25
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No, I'm just pointing out that these projects are more difficult than building a doghouse or changing your oil. Some people would not be able to accomplish a successful project without being shocked, burned, gassed, or sustaining major bodily injury of some sort. You need to have things like safety glasses, gloves, fire extinguishers and such handy. Have some sort of safe workspace, definitely don't do it on the living room rug. A bench would be much better.

Also, a logical and methodical approach is immensely helpful. Patience and attention to fine details and workmanship are paramount. Most importantly, failures and hiccups abound in this realm. Accepting and recovering from a massive loss, then moving on forward is just part of the process. The confidence, tenacity and persistence demanded by these beasts is high.

That being said, it is highly possible to rebuild or warp someone else's scrap heap junk into a working machine that would otherwise be shredded or destroyed. Air conditioners and refrigerators are no longer a luxury reserved for the elite few; they are everywhere now. Finding inexpensive "obsolete" or supposed "dead" units is easy enough. Figuring out what to do with them and actually doing what you figured is not so simple.

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Old 11-01-14, 04:01 AM   #26
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Since this is a DIY kind of forum, how will you create a working solution?

-AC
Well, to me it all just seems too easy. I must be missing something. I could go to Walmart and spend $99 on a brand new air conditioner. I could spend another $100 in random parts from ebay, add a reversing valve to this air conditioner, and have a $900 "heat pump" for $200. Is that incorrect? That would easily pay for itself in the first heating season vs an electric heater!

Even if I didn't have the skills to do this myself, I could spend another $300 paying an HVAC guy to do it for me, and still spend way less.

But even if you get rid of the "heat pump" idea, and simply turn the air conditioner into a dedicated "compressor heater", they should be able to sell those at Walmart for the same $99. Why not? I always thought it was because they didn't work very well when it got cold, but I've disproven that!

It's funny, this air conditioner is doing a better job of heating this room, than it did cooling it!

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Old 11-01-14, 06:00 AM   #27
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Well, to me it all just seems too easy. I must be missing something. I could go to Walmart and spend $99 on a brand new air conditioner. I could spend another $100 in random parts from ebay, add a reversing valve to this air conditioner, and have a $900 "heat pump" for $200. Is that incorrect? That would easily pay for itself in the first heating season vs an electric heater!

Even if I didn't have the skills to do this myself, I could spend another $300 paying an HVAC guy to do it for me, and still spend way less.

But even if you get rid of the "heat pump" idea, and simply turn the air conditioner into a dedicated "compressor heater", they should be able to sell those at Walmart for the same $99. Why not? I always thought it was because they didn't work very well when it got cold, but I've disproven that!

It's funny, this air conditioner is doing a better job of heating this room, than it did cooling it!
That's what I'm talking about! It can be done! And you can do it!

I didn't even spend that much on the original units. The R22-based units abound on craigs list and bookoo for cheap, and work well when recharged with BBQ propane gas. The new units are all R410a which only really works well with R410a, so you have to reclaim and refill the charge.

The dirt cheap reverse cycle unit I built a few years ago has paid for itself, all the tools I had to collect to fabricate and test it, and bought my kids Christmas presents ever since. It has literally leveled my heating and cooling bills. It uses about the same electrical power as a run of the mill portable, but provides much more heat down into the single digits (Farenheit).

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Old 11-01-14, 05:00 PM   #28
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...It's funny, this air conditioner is doing a better job of heating this room, than it did cooling it!
You are so very right on that!!

Turns out that the air conditioner has the burden of the heat from the compressor, that it must get rid of.

In heat pump mode, it USES the heat from the compressor!

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Old 11-02-14, 06:46 PM   #29
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You are so very right on that!!

Turns out that the air conditioner has the burden of the heat from the compressor, that it must get rid of.

In heat pump mode, it USES the heat from the compressor!

-AC
That's another thing I don't understand about the commercial window heat pumps. They often are rated a few thousand BTU less in heating mode. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
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Old 11-19-14, 12:04 AM   #30
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Don't mean to burst any bubbles but when it comes to heat, those 1,500w space heaters that put out about 5,120 Btu's pretty much sum it up. That's the bottom line, in terms of btu's / kwh.

Now, if you want to reduce your heating bills?
Insulation.

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