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Old 10-28-14, 03:04 PM   #11
AC_Hacker
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Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
... I didn't figure they were really worthy of their own threads. They were more or less proof-of-concept devices to help me get an idea of this whole phase-change realm of things...
Well, the frost build-up issue is a huge problem for people who want to do the Turn-The-Air-Conditioner-Around-Backwards thing, and also for any body who wants to hack an ASHP for heating.

It looks like you have discovered a $3 fix for it.

If your device fix really works, you need to un-bury that $3 fix, and give it it's own correctly titled thread, explaining it, with pictures, part numbers and links.

This problem has already spawned an ocean of wasted ASCII on EcoRenovator (just do a search on "frost build up" if you doubt me).

If you really have a $3 fix, make it public.

-AC

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Old 10-28-14, 05:33 PM   #12
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Default There she sits in the barn



You can see the "Klixon" thermostat on the compressor suction line. When the evaporator frosts up, the cold follows the suction line all the way to the compressor. This rig cycled extra slow. If you want a shorter defrost cycle, put the sensor closer to (or even on) the evap coil.

Last edited by jeff5may; 10-28-14 at 05:47 PM.. Reason: "smart"phone
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Old 10-28-14, 05:38 PM   #13
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[IMG]http://i1326.photobucket.com/al
bums/u654/jeff5may/IMAG0080_zpsb7b2efe6.jpg[/IMG]
Bad, bad, bad.

Try it.

-AC
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Old 10-28-14, 05:39 PM   #14
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I have to say I think Jefftmay is brilliant with his understanding of heat pumps Hvac etc.


I expect AC hacker wished he had seen your method sooner in his AC hacking adventures.

I 2nd the vote for a thread on the frost control method you employ Jeff
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Old 10-28-14, 05:56 PM   #15
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an old, fuzzy close-up from a crappy phone:



In this photo, you can kind of see the wiring. One wire connects to the compressor live wire, the other connects to the humidistat.

When I get back over there, I'll shine her up a bit and take some better pics.
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Old 10-29-14, 01:43 AM   #16
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an old, fuzzy close-up from a crappy phone...
Are you aware that you can get really good used digital cameras from thrift stores like Goodwill for around $10?

-AC
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Old 10-29-14, 01:58 AM   #17
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... I expect AC hacker wished he had seen your method sooner in his AC hacking adventures...
The hacking I did was to go straight to Ground Loop, where frost built up on evaporator coil fins can not be an issue. However freezing damage to an evaporator HX is a real and similar danger. There is a difference though, because if the frosting & freezing situation is severe enough to trip the disk switch, it is already too late, your water-filled HX is already destroyed. I have watched ice form in critically chilled agitated water, and it propagates incredibly fast.

jeff5may's solution is better suited to an ASHP.

That being said, I do appreciate easy, inexpensive solutions, no doubt.

And I am a doubter at heart until I actually know for myself that something works.

-AC
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Old 10-31-14, 06:46 AM   #18
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Looks like it's definitely an air flow thing. I pointed a desk fan at the evaporator and it ran for several hours in similar temperatures and never froze up. Still going to hook up a frost sensor...

Really pumped out a lot of heat today, I can't understand why they don't sell compressor based window heaters.
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Old 10-31-14, 09:19 AM   #19
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because people don't care that much about energy efficiency unless it's a whole lot of power. The reverse cycle setup is just too much for people to pay for.
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Old 10-31-14, 11:50 AM   #20
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...Really pumped out a lot of heat today, I can't understand why they don't sell compressor based window heaters...


There are available machines called, "Through Wall Air Conditioner and Heat Pump". Contrary to popular belief, they actually are available.

The idea is that you make a hole in a wall, in a similar way as you would make a window opening in a wall, and install this machine in that hole.

Additionally, I have seen fractional-Ton window-mounted heat pumps being sold into the Asian market. I haven't seen this very often, but I have seen it.

But I think that the most true, and most accurate answer to your question is that smaller air conditioner/heat pump development made an evolutionary leap in their configuration, and became mini-split air conditioner/heat pumps.


The advantages to the re-configuration are
  • They are much quieter in operation, because the compressor and very large fan are located outside if the building envelope, so the vibration and noise is isolated from the house.
  • Installation only requires a small (3" to 4") hole to be made in a wall.
Not so obvious is that the number of engineers of all types being graduated in Asia is greater than the number of engineers in the US by a factor of at least 5 to 1 *.

Some of this engineering talent has been applied to mini-split efficiency, with the result that mini-split efficiency has made an evolutionary leap at about the same time as configuration.

-AC

* This is an older estimate. This difference is probably much larger now, since our society seems to be less willing to bear the cost of education on a large scale. Also our government is tolerant of the predatory lending practices that are targeting students in particular. The net result is that many students are now saddled with crippling debt, and too often, very little hope of employment that can lift them above a subsistence level. This has discouraged many talented and educated younger people from even embarking on a path of formal education.

Interesting to note that while this is happening here, in 'the land of opportunity', Germany has declared free higher education to all Germans who want it... even some foreigners.

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